Would you say non-white people born & raised in England are English?

[rack909]

Just thought I should hear people’s perspective on this.

Some say it’s an ethnicity, some say it’s a nationality & others say it’s both of them.

I personally think it’s both a Nationality & ethnic group.

If someone says they are from England, they are denoting their nationality as English even if they don’t say it outright. It’s the same thing.

Yes it does seem to be somewhat fashionable with some white English people who were born and raised in England, (mostly younger - under 45,) to claim that they are 'ashamed' or 'embarrassed' to be English. As you say, very immature, and rather pathetic.... See also, 'I'm embarrassed to be British.' 🙄 (Usually comes from white English people born in the UK too.)

I have yet to hear ANY other nationality on the planet say this, that they are ashamed or embarrassed to be what nationality they are. It's almost funny.

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Reading the posts.. so theres four parts here.. ethnicity, culture, heritage and citizenship.
You can have one, two three or or all of these so I guess it depends on the context the question is being asked. So being English can be true based on only one of these factors, or can only be true based on all, depending on why it is being asked.

I used to live in Russia as a kid. Very international neighbourhood. Some of them had been born in Russia. Did they class themselves as Russian? Absoloutley not.

Same as when I had my son in UAE. Would you say he was Emirati? No.

I think it depends if their parents/past generations have been born in UK.

I have quite a few friends who were born in UK but their parents are from a different country. They are proud of their heritage and don’t class themselves as English.

Personally I never ask someone where they’re from as I find it rude. I wait until they mention it.

Now I disagree with you. I'm white English and have always said that, wouldn't even occur to me to say anything else. I find it rather sad that you would think any other way. Yes there are people who are far right but they are the minority.

Perhaps we’re majority-white people discussing this from a majority-white pov, where we’ve been told that ethnicity being linked to skin clour is a bad view on life. I wonder whether the sort of ethnic protection which seems to occur in other countries is seen as reasonable, whereas English isn’t, and what we’re really siscussing here is nationality rather than ethnicity.

If I was born in Japan to my European parents then I guess I could hold Japanese citiizenship and be Japanese, but I’d still be ethnically European, even if some people want to erase ethnicity as a distinction. The same would apply for any other non-white global country; do those white people on here who argue that white doesn’t define English ethnicity, agree that if lots of white people live in a non-white area (let’s consider South Africa…) that those people can be ethnically South African, or Kenyan, or Pakistani? And if those white people initiate a cultural shift, that that is a good thing, and that the country’s original cultures should change significantly with changes in demographics?

I am white and was born and raised in an Asian country. Not a single person ever thought I was anything other than British. I would not have been able to get citizenship of that country as it is basically impossible to get if you are not ethnically from there.

Exactly. These tedious 'I'm embarrassed to call myself English' comments are really annoying. Don't then, us people who are happy to do so really don't care.

Bajan.

No, I wouldn’t. Take Rishi Sunak, for example. Indubitably British, but English? I’m not so sure. If he were English, he would have understood just why leaving the Remembrance Day service in France early gave so much offence.

IMHO, ’White’, ‘Black’ etc are terms rooted in nonsensical ‘race’ theory. We all have different colouring: skin, hair, eyes and genetic features (like red curly hair or brown eyes). So, IMHO saying ‘non-White’ is a nonsense. Who does that in include? People with a sun-tan? However, some people identify as ‘White’, ‘Black’ or ‘Brown’ and that should be respected.

Official nationality is UK. That’s what it says on passports. Lots of UK nationals weren’t born in UK (e.g. because their parents lived/worked abroad at the time). Lots of non-UK nationals were born in UK (because their parents lived/worked there at the time). Lots of people have dual nationality, e.g. both an Irish and UK passport.

There’s no such thing as ethnically English. Because the English are from many different ethnic backgrounds, e.g. Celt, Viking, Anglo-Saxon, Norman, Castilian, Romany, Arab, Indo-Aryan, Punjabi, Sylheti, Somali, Yoruba etc etc. Lots of different ethnicities arrived in England when it was part of the Roman Empire (which was vast) and due to the British Empire (which was also vast). And due to its many seaports, e.g. Somali sailors in the 1800s.

People who live in England may or may not consider themselves English. It depends. For example, they may consider themselves Irish, Scottish, Welsh, French, Jamaican, Nigerian, Pakistani etc etc. Or a combination. It’s a matter for them.

Cultural and ethnic heritage is usually passed on. IMHO, that’s a good thing. For example, a person born of Catholic parents from Lancashire (but who was born and lives in Essex) may still be proud of/celebrate, their Catholic and Lancastrian heritage (practicing certain traditions (like fasting during lent) or eating certain foods (like Lancashire Hotpot or barm cakes). They may, in addition, be of Polish heritage, and celebrate those cultural traditions (like eating pierogi). People with a US parent (of any colouring) may eat turkey on Thanksgiving. They’re still English.

Weird - and strangely predictable.

No it isn't.

Interesting. Why not?

I have had people tell me quite insistently that I am English. I have never ever and will never ever call myself English.

I have no idea what I am really. I have a British passport but have owned two (neither of which say I am English, obviously).

If someone in England (or elsewhere) chooses to call themself English, they are perfectly entitled to just as I am entitled not to.

People with a US parent (of any colouring) may eat turkey on Thanksgiving. They’re still English.

Ermm, nope.

Yours truly a 'person with a US parent'.

Oh, wait, is Remembrance Day only for White English people??

Yes. Didn't you know??

This thread is going as expected. Are you coming back at all @rack909 ?

I have never known anyone who feels it is an ethnicity not a nationality.

I should’ve added, they may also not consider themselves English.

I did say they may eat turkey on Thanksgiving. They also may not.

Silly me.

Yes

It would not be for me to say. If a person said they were English or British then they are. If they said they felt partly English/British and partly another nationality or ethnicity then that is what they are. If they said they felt very little affinity with Britain then that is their choice or feeling as well. I do not get to decide how other people should identify or feel.