Do you believe the Michael Jackson allegations?

[fartotheleftside]

For me it’s undeniable and the evidence is overwhelming, but I’m shocked by the amount of people who don’t.

So where does it say she says her dad was a paedophile? 🤔

I think people should be wary of accepting TV documentaries as irrefutable evidence of anything. That's rarely what they are. Of course that doesn't mean they're not on the money.

What complicates the Jackson stuff is that in the face of actual evidence in court, he was found not guilty. Again, that doesn't mean he didn't commit other offences.

His death means we'll never get to see other accusations tested. It also means that people can make claims about him that would have been defamatory if he were alive, and that he can't defend. That doesn't mean those claims aren't true.

I don't think even his biggest fan would deny that he was an extremely troubled, unwell, damaged and unusual individual who lived a completely insane life. I wouldn't be surprised if that had manifested itself in the kind of behaviors he was accused of. But it also doesn't automatically make him a pedophile.

And I doubt we'll ever know for sure.

I certainly wouldn't want to see him around children, but I do understand why his fans feel able to defend him.

It’s absolutely disgusting that people venerate this paedophile. I think in this case you can’t even separate the art from the artist, he made music and music videos to lure young boys and got off on the fact that kids put his posters on their walls.

Yes definitely. A sick man. I'll never get my head around the mentality of the parents who sent their children to him.

Watch Wade Robson and James Safechuck being interviewed by Oprah. They talk about how they themselves didn't identify as being abused, because Michael loved them, and was loving towards them. They also didn't identify as being abused because they loved him. And their parents, their protectors, were on board with them being with Michael. So in their child brains, they didn't know they were being abused. He never hit them, or attacked them, which is how most children would distinguish someone's behaviour as being bad. But they were groomed and manipulated. It took them until they had therapy as adults due to mental health problems to finally understand they had been abused. They discuss this with Oprah and I really recommend watching it. The audience is filled with CSA survivors:
Source: YouTube

I'm a body language expert, and I have studied these two men in interviews and MJ documentaries, and I cannot detect any lying.
If you watch James Safechuck's current Instagram post, it's difficult to believe this man is lying:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXiHV3eDcHo/?igsh=aWk2ZHZpcnhsazJk

Read here what Jordan Chandler said to his therapist, it's a long read but an important one:
https://themichaeljacksonallegationsblog.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/j-chandler-gardner-interview.pdf

I am interested in this on a greater level. Grown men have spoken out to tell us they were sexually abused by MJ as children, and millions of adults are calling them liars and are taking their children to watch the new MJ movie. I took my children to a swimming party and MJ music was playing. I went to a friend's birthday party and the DJ was playing MJ music and plenty of people were dancing to it and laughing. Tens of thousands have watched the West End show. My Instagram feed showed me a reel of a mum in her 40s doing an MJ dance routine with her young teenage son. My 14 year old DS has a close friend who is an MJ superfan and our school allow him to perform MJ dance routines to MJ music all dressed up in an MJ outfit at school end of term performances for students and parents to watch. Parents applaud this performance. His parents are super proud and are big MJ fans and have, of course, taken their son to see the new movie. My DS was invited to go with them and I said no. But this was met with disdain. Because MJ was never found guilty, right? So it didn't happen. The justice system is never wrong, is it? So the fans keep believing that MJ was innocent. But in those school shows we attend where celebratory clapping and smiling fills the school hall for a performance carried out by a 14 year old boy impersonating a man who abused boys, based on statistics that 1 in 20 children under 16 years old in the UK are CSA victims, there will most definitely be children listening to the applause and learning that CSA survivors are not believed and that the adults in their community applaud a dance routine by one of their peers impersonating an abuser, and the teachers in their school allow this. And on a global level, the new MJ movie, which I hear has already broken records in its success, is teaching CSA survivors around the world that the masses don't believe the victims and support the abuser.
And the excuse people make about "Oh but the liars are only after a pay out with their fake claims!" James Safechuck explains that in the USA, if you make a claim against someone for harming you, and that person is found guilty, the court system compensates you with money. You can't make a claim against someone and then if they are found guilty say "I don't want the money". It's part of the process. You get given it as compensation. It doesn't mean he, or others, shouldn't take CSA to court in case people think being financially compensated means you are making up abuse to get money.

He could have been an ill man trying to be a kid and still been a pedophile though. Just because someone isn't a scheming predator like Saville doesn't mean they're not a danger.

Even if you want to go all the way and suggest that he was so 'childlike', naive, etc that he wasn't mentally competent enough to understand that his behavior was wrong, that doesn't excuse or diminish any potential offences.

Yes, I do. Finding Neverland left me in no doubt. It is disgusting how people rush to discredit and disbelieve those men who were child victims, as we must remember. No-one is that good an actor, they are obviously hugely traumatized.

Yes I believe them, but his music is also amazing. Neither one negates the other. The cognitive dissonance is challenging.

The question on why parents kept taking their boys back especially after allegations came out God only knows.

I questioned why Virginia Gruifts (spelling sorry) father took her back to Epstien after the first day.
Then it has come out in her book her father was also an abuser.

Were the kids he abused the same?
Were parents being paid?

The more you think about it the odder it becomes.

You don't get cancelled if you are rich in the US. Look at all the huge US names (including the president himself) implicated in the Epstein paedophile ring and yet the only people who have suffered any repercussions whatsoever are all British (Maxwell, Mandelson, and Windsor).

Rich Americans are immune from pretty much anything.

They talk about how they themselves didn't identify as being abused, because Michael loved them, and was loving towards them.

This. One of my friends (bright, uni educated) recently came out with accusations that our youth pastor abused him. He didn’t understand that it was abuse until he was in his mid-30s. The penny never dropped. Once he bravely came forward, other men came forward too, to say that the same had happened to them as young teens. The youth pastor was choosing boys from broken homes with working mums who were busy, and who probably appreciated that their sons had a male role model in their lives.

Parents pimping out their children, or simply starry-eyed enough to ignore or minimise the warning signs, is not new.

We also see this in sports - parents forcing their children to continue with a sport despite being abused (gymnastics and tennis being particularly affected by this).

Yes I do and have believed him to be guilty since the first allegations in the early 90s. The documentaries have merely consolidated my view.

No because I don’t believe. 90 percent of things I read or see online. He might be guilty but he never got the chance of a defence meaning he has been tried in a court of internet warriors and not a fair legal trial

Yes, you do. See:

Kanye West
Bill Cosby
Roseanne Barr
Ellen Degeneres

Just four off the top of my head.

Because MJ was never found guilty, right? So it didn't happen.

Because MJ was found guilty, right? So it must have happened. The justice system is never wrong, is it?

That argument works both ways.

this is true :(

You think Kanye has been cancelled in the US? The only company that he worked with that took action against him is German. The only gigs that are being cancelled are in Europe.

The others in your list are small beer or were 'cancelled' back when the US still actually had some sense of morality.

the only people who have suffered any repercussions whatsoever are all British (Maxwell, Mandelson, and Windsor).

This isn't true at all. There have been number of high profile Americans 'cancelled' over links to Epstein.

Yes, absolutely. What surprises me is the way that quite a few of my students don't believe them. They believe some other cases, but not that a man who had bed built behind rides on his private theme park that he took children to without being monitored was as guilty as all hell.

absolutely 100%, not a shadow of doubt in my mind.

Of course he wasn't. I'm shocked though that people don't believe it.

I haven’t seen the NL docu, can someone explain what it is that was so irrefutable on there?

Im intrigued about what police or prosecutors have to gain by lying....? Are they being paid millions to make stuff up? Several have appeared in documentaries and confirmed there was (enough) evidence to take the case to trial.

If it takes a village to raise a child, it takes a village to abuse one (Spotlight)