Wendy Duffy heart breaking but understandable

[youalright]

What a brave lady i hope she's holding her son right now.

I imagine that, like anyone who works in an industry where dealing with dead bodies could happen, that it's an unpleasant part of the job. It's unfortunate, but I think it's better than a society that's normalised killing depressed people.

We all have to go sometime, 99 is simply not in the same category as someone who still has their future ahead of them. My mum passed away at 87 recently and as sad as that is, it simply doesn’t compare to the shock passing of a child or young adult. My mum would not expect it to either. And I don’t know why you used the word honesty, where was I trying to be dishonest? I’m sorry if you lost an elderly relative too, but I don’t feel what I said is incorrect.

I agree. It is absurd to suggest that there is no difference between the death of a 99 year-old and the sudden death of a child. To see a difference is not to devalue the lives of older people, nor does it mean that what happened in the pandemic, and some people’s attitudes, as described by @echt were not appalling. I don’t see how you have been dishonest.

Its not better when people successfully end their lives which is rarely by overdosing its usually an horrific scene. Speak to any police officer they will tell you their experiences its not just unpleasant. You honestly have no idea

Are you asking me personally? I'm still alive.

I'm not able to make a judgement about whether somebody else's relationhips with people are rewarding enough to overcome the pain or sheer hard work of them being alive.

It's clear for many people, they are not.

I would think there is potentially more pain, possibly a lot more, involved in losing someone to a sudden suicide that might not have been thought through, than losing someone to a process that takes a long time to get through and is well thought out.

Yes, but the two are not mutually exclusive. We could have better mental health services and better end of life care / pain management etc and people would also have the right to an assisted death if that is what they choose.

Agreed.

I get so angry when I hear the argument that assisted dying at end of life would be unnecessary if end of life care was better. It wouldn't.

I've worked in one of the UKs best hospices and people still lie crying with pain.

The whole thread is about assisted dying for people who are not at the end of their lives.

I know, but I still believe an adult should have the right to have an assisted death whatever stage of life they are at. With the right safeguarding in place, this is definitely the right way to go in my opinion.

TBH I was a very stroppy 14 year old, so I think I was probably more of a burden than a compensation. Yes, the loss was always with her. But she learned to lock it away and she could enjoy the day in front of her. She spent 30+ years volunteering for a charity , she found a new interest & a group of friends in genealogy, she travelled, went to opera/theatre, and organised get togethers for the wider family. So a meaningful life by any standards. She was 50 when my sister died and she lived another 42 years.

Yes but that applies to any healthcare setting.

We all have to go sometime, 99 is simply not in the same category as someone who still has their future ahead of them. My mum passed away at 87 recently and as sad as that is, it simply doesn’t compare to the shock passing of a child or young adult

Very well put, @BunnyLake
I'd hope we can all appreciate that the death of a very elderly loved one is deeply painful for those left behind, but unless people expect immortality a life completed can hardly be the same as one barely lived

The whole thread is about assisted dying for people who are not at the end of their lives

You're right, it is, @OneFineDay22 - and it's also an interesting window into exactly what could happen if the UK's Assissted Dying Bill had been passed in its current format

So your solution is to create a society where it's normalised for medical professionals to kill perfectly healthy depressed people? Where suicide is lauded as brave, and 'the right choice', and becomes more and more acceptable for sadness?

Given social contagion, and the almost inevitable shift of focus away from treating serious mental health issues with anything other than suicide, do you really not think that will cause major, dystopian problems over time?

It worries me that a suicidal person may read this thread. There are people here voicing views such as life not being precious (that's just a religious view, they say), and suggesting that if you are suffering then suicide is a good option. It makes me feel uneasy and I'm not sure it's very responsible of Mumsnet to keep this thread up.

I think what people are saying is that at the end of the day, she had tried everything. Why should we get to choose to force her to suffer on?

Exactly.

Nobody is saying it’s a “good” option, people are saying she had the right to make that choice.

This is a concern I have. I've shared reasons why people who are suicidal should hold on for another day (reasons which helped me, many years ago), and people have literally argued against that, and said there's no point, and that suicide is better.

It's deeply disturbing to see people arguing in favour of suicide - especially when none of them are partaking in it themselves! I feel like it goes against all recommendations of how suicide should be discussed.

Who has said there is no point and suicide is “better”? The thread is fast moving and I may have missed it.

In this context, a woman has held on for four years, taken the medication, gone to therapy and made the decision that she no longer wanted to live. Whether I agree with that decision or not is irrelevant, because I am not her and it’s not my decision to make, but she absolutely should have had the right to make it.

Multiple people have said that she was brave, and that it was the 'right' choice, and one poster has essentially said there is no value in life, with comments such as "But why should she [live]? You can't regret missing something after you're dead," implying that killing oneself is a zero-regret situation.

In this context, it has been a mere four years (that's really no time at all with such a major loss) and I'm not aware of what therapy or medication she tried, but who knows how intensive it was.

Should someone who has depression for four years be allowed to pay a company to kill them, if they feel they haven't improved? Maybe a woman with PND that doesn't seem to be improving, after four years? And if not, why not?

Regardless - praising suicide as brave, the right choice, the only choice, ending her suffering etc, and publicising it as a tragic positive decision, goes against everything that one is meant to say about suicide, as it glorifies it and contributes to social contagion - meaning that it will contribute to more people attempting suicide.

Of course, if you think depressed people killing themselves is a brave thing, then I guess you'd be fine with that!

So many people seem to have undeveloped / immature thinking wrt death. Death is death, people need to stop holding it at arms length until it becomes very real (to them).

If a person wants to go down the route of Assisted Dying, that is their choice and their choice only. If a person thinks they will be reunited in an afterlife, that is up to them. Frankly based on religious ideas - you'd quite imagine that religious zealots would be in favour of AD, because they believe in all sorts of un proven stuff with regards to an afterlife.

If they think they'll die and that's that, that is also up to them. If they don't want to consider AD for themselves, that is also up to them.

However what is not up to them is what other people do or do not do with their own life or death. The sooner these controlling unbelievably self-centered selfish people start understanding that personal choice matters, the better for everyone.

Nobody is saying it’s a “good” option, people are saying she had the right to make that choice

And while I agree with that, @ItsPickleRick, it's the involvement of the state and/or commercial organisations which make it problematic for all the reasons mentioned

There are also a massive number of assumptions being made ... anyone who disagrees must be a religious nutter, the poor lady had "tried every option" or feels such-and-such when I doubt anyone here knows her personally ... the very assumptions which could be so dangerous in barring proper inquiry if this became more widespread

@Northermcharn how is it selfish to see value in a stranger’s life? Their suicide would not affect any of us personally.

I can’t understand why people are so up in arms about it. Surely we all have a choice as to whether we want to continue or not.

Your question demonstrates very well the issue.

You think You are not selfish because You see 'the value in a stranger's life''.

Not an iota of your question considers what the 'stranger' thinks. Your question represents the epitomy of selfishness.

Agreed and the people who want to stop others from making these choices are morally just the same as those who want to restrict abortion, in my view.