My parents are sleeping in chairs in the living room

[Pigeonangel]

And I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

I live very close and visit often. Always have done, am happy to. They're good company and have been fantastic parents and grandparents. When DH was terminally ill, and subsequently died, I honestly don't know how I'd have got through it without them.

That was only 5 years ago, they were there constantly for all of us, helping with house and car repairs, running errands etc. Until they hit 80 they were amazing sprightly older people who could do anything - furious at the suggestion they might be "vulnerable" during lockdown 🤣

How things change. In a matter of months they've both had health issues that mean their mobility is badly affected. Until recently it always seemed to be worse for one at a time and they're a great team so got by supporting each other, without asking or wanting much from me.

Now Mum can shuffle a bit with a frame and Dad is unable to walk at all. Last night they both slept in chairs downstairs. Mum suffles about to get food, do some cleaning and bring him a bed bottle etc. She managed to do a roast dinner for them both at the weekend, although I can't believe for a minute that would have been safe.

Mentally they are both totally with it, the house is perfectly livable (ie not dirty, if not practical), they seem OK from a personal hygiene pov, and are insisting they don't need anything from me or social services, they slept well last night and can manage.

Am I supposed to just leave it at that? I'm feeling very overwhelmed. It's just me with DH gone, my DC live away and DSis is also several 100 miles away but has lots of opinions on how Mum and Dad should behave.

I don't know what to do.

Sadly as they get older the power balance shifts. How is your Dad toileting solids? They need changes to the home, a walk/wheel in shower, beds downstairs. If they won’t have a conversation about a plan they will end up with your Dad in a care home, one not chosen by him. Your Mum home alone. my DMum now lives downstairs at home.

my suggestion is to suggest retirement flat? Then gradually care at home. Do they own their home? Your sister is probably right with her stroppy behaviour and frustrated that they are firmly in denial, a denial that will strip them of life choices. Tough love is needed

You’d think so but actually that’s wrong. If we could just decide people were incapable because they were making poor decisions half the population would be deemed incapable at some time or another. It’s more to do with accepting and understanding the consequences of their decisions. Sounds like OPs parents have valued their independence in the one hand and hate to accept help and on the other probably don’t realise what a difference some home help or aids/adaptations/equipment could make to their everyday life.

I think one more direct conversation - for your benefit so you can at least feel you’ve done all you can. Tell them your concerns and that you can see this becoming a crisis etc. Then leave them to it. I know you’re worried but your mum managed to cook a roast, even if she’s using a frame, she’s obviously got a lot of stamina. They’re both washing, eating, drinking etc. Keep an eye on them and if things get dangerous then you can try again but ultimately people are allowed to choose to live in less than ideal situations.

They’re not children, you can’t just take control and do things like this. Don’t be silly. If my family member did this I’d never let them back in my house. Honestly you get old and people start treating you like you’re incapable of making your own decisions. I’d love to see what you would do if someone came in to your house and started pulling up your flooring and repainting your walls after you already told them not to

Social services don’t work with people who don’t consent to their referral unless it’s life and death

Have you applied for Attendance Allowance for them both - sounds like they might both qualify at the higher rate if they have nighttime needs? My parents are in their 80's, not very mobile now, but support each other in different ways, like yours sound like they do. They don't have any professional external care support.

It's a ballache - 35 pages of forms for each (lots of repetition) but Chat GPT is your friend here! I cut and pasted all my DF's meds for example and it gave a potted medical history (i double checked!) (Keep a copy, DWP lost our first one!)

Upshot - they were awarded a smidge under £1k a month between them - pays for cleaner, gardener, equipment to help them stay safe and healthy - we are looking at a washer/dryer loo for example.

We also used it to pay for an independent OT to come and do an assessment, rather than waiting for months and months for the NHS. The outcome helped get my DF referred to a memory clinic.

We put a second hand chairlift into my DMIL's house, council sent carers, and arranged meals on wheels for food so she's not cooking. I'm afraid we ended up saying 'you accept help, or you'll end up in a home after a fall - those are your choices at this age. Nobody's fault, the price you pay for living'. Arrive with a plan, not a question. The council put hand rails, ramps etc into the house. Also get them fall alarms.

Sofa bed? Lots of good ones out there now.

My best friend does all the cooking for her and her mum now. Plus shopping on foot. Plus cleaning. Her mum can cook but not well and eyesight not the best anymore. She’s very mobile but has fallen and tries eg to go into attic by herself. Family have saved on carers and not looking at other options for the mum and they (older brother and sister) barely help. Take for granted their younger sister will be a carer. Why don’t some elderly people put proper plans in place to help them? Another friend of mine is an OTA so has explained what she does for her clients.

OP you seem really defensive with people
offering practical solutions. There comes a point where being mentally competent isn’t the only consideration needing taken. They sound like they are not safe and being stubborn about that doesn’t make them any safer.

You can raise concerns with the doctor
or social services, you can do so anonymously if you prefer but they need to have an assessment and a care plan put in place because while they may have their mental faculties they are not physically competent and that too is taken into consideration. If they refuse to engage with social services amd
they appear to be in an unsafe situation as you suggest then they are not making competent and rational decisions either and social services may decide to act upon that too.

It’s all very well highlighting their competence (and really who are you trying to convince?) over and over but you came looking for an answer and you’ve got lots saying they need intervention and help beyond what
you can offer unless you move in and become
their full time carer.

There comes a point where the roles need to be reversed and you become the parent and you have to make the difficult and unpopular decisions. I really do know how difficult it is with awkward and stubborn elderly parents but there comes a time you need to put your big girl pants on and have the conversation with them in straightforward blunt terms.

Becuase theyre not "practical" solutions. They're things that would, of course, be done if it were practical, but it's not practical to do them when competent adults don't want them.

So what do you want to do?
You've asked for advice and rejected it all.

Are you using this thread only to offload?

I feel for you as you're a young widow, your sister is not nearby and the responsibility falls on you.

I think you'd have more sympathetic replies if you were open to some suggestions.

Have you spoken to their GP?
What health issues does your dad have that means he cannot walk at all?
How is he toileting for poos? Is he constipated? If that persists it will be an emergency.

Does he see his GP or a community nurse?

These are all highly important issues and you've not explained.

My advice is you call Age UK and discuss the issues you have and see what they suggest. And that you make an appt to see your parents' GP (if you can) and discuss their needs.

They can't be forced to make changes but the current situation will escalate and there needs to be a plan in place. That could mean carers, a care home etc.
What are their wishes for when this escalates?

I don't think I asked for advice at all, and I've basically be lectured about things that, obviously need to happen, but I don't know how to make them happen or even it it's my place to do that.

So what was the idea behind posting?
Was it to offload and get some sympathy?

Your first began and ended with 'I don't know what to do'.
If that's not a cry for help and advice, what is it?

No one here can tell you what to do.
They can only offer suggestions.
And no one can offer any advice when you refuse to say what your dad's health issues are and how he is coping by not being mobile.

Why are you ignoring these questions?

The first is you should have an open discussion with your parents.
They need to face the reality of their decline and decide what they want.
That may be carers, adapting the home, considering longer term care in a care home if the time comes.

No one can offer you anything more here unless you start being more open with us over what their health issues are , their prognoses, life expectancy, quality of life going forwards.

And, to add, your sister should come to visit so you can see them together, and present a united front, to show that you are happy to help them, as much or as little as they want at the moment.

You must surely be aware of whatever illness your dad has, be it something like Parkinson's, neuropathy, severe arthritis, some kinds of dementia, heart /CVD, etc.

And you, your Mum, and your sister need to talk openly and honestly about how this will play out in the future because being 'chair bound' comes with serious issues that have to be dealt with.

The alternative is your dad may be admitted (in a rush) to a local authority care home, not of a great standard, or into hospital as an emergency, never come out, and spend his last days without proper care or dignity. I've seen that happen to many older people.

About 5 years ago I went through something similar with my mother. To cut a long story short, I ended up staying there most of the time (it was during Covid).

However, that didn't avert a crisis and she fell three times on two consecutive days (without a history of falls at all) and was subsequently admitted to hospital. While there, she had a change of heart and decided she wanted to live in a care home as it was all too much for her. Hallelujah!

It sounds as if your parents are heading for a crisis as well, a fall for your mother and obvious health issues for your father (I am also curious as to how your mother is able to deal with toileting...not just wee!)

With hindsight, I would intervene despite them not wanting any help. It would clearly be in their best interests and they would likely thank you for it in the future. But I'd be upfront with them and tell them what I was going to do before doing so. You've had plenty of advice regarding the avenues of support you could enlist here.

Good luck. I know how hard it is to help elderly family when they don't want to be helped.

Its okay, my Mum's 81 but her mobility has gone off a cliff in the last 2 years, we used to walk miles together 4 years ago with the pram, then a couple of years ago she started needing a stick and now she needs a rollator (and sometimes a wheelchair). The blue badge has been really useful for getting her out and about so she can still get involved with my 5 year olds activities and go to "knit and natter" meet ups and the attendance allowance means she can get a weekly cleaner as shes really struggling with chores.

However luckily her current house you can live on the ground floor as it has a dining room and downstairs wet room, (she moved to be close to me when I had a baby, but we had her advancing age in mind) but she still drags herself upstairs to bed. (Even though shes had a couple of falls, I would also recommend a Galaxy watch to the OP as that has alerted me to Mum falling) in a way I'm glad she still tries to go upstairs though its good exercise and I check in on her daily either by call, whatsapp or in person.

My Dad on the other hand was incredibly reluctant for any help (my parents separated when I was a teen) my brothers and I tried to convince him to have a downstairs bathroom installed etc as he was peeing in a bucket in the kitchen... even hire a cleaner but he refused everything. (I used to visit and clean there myself when I could but I didn't live locally, my brothers did, but they used to mostly just do food shops and only clean when it was unbearable and if he'd let them, he was better at letting me) He also turned into a bit of a hermit and just refused to leave the house. He was 79 when he passed in 2019 but the difference in attitude between my Mum and him was miles apart.

I can understand the OPs frustration as my Dad was more like her parents and you can't make people take help if they have capacity, I wish he'd have let me help though, I think he would have had a better quality of life. Xx

If they have capacity to make their own decisions the only thing you can do is tell them your concerns and offer whatever support you are willing and able to offer.

It's hard but they are adults and have the right to make their own decisions (even bad ones).

@Pigeonangel You make them happen by having a grown up conversation, mum dad what would make life easier? how about this???
Its not so hard, ppl have been great here with suggestions and you’re bleating oh but but, lots of us have had to support elderly family, its a conversation that is needed.

I appreciate it feels like being lectured and I'm sorry if anything I said came across like that. I felt like you when my mum was refusing care and making my dad's life a misery.

But I do think it is your place, because you love them and want them to be safe and comfortable - not because you want to take over.

The place to start is to let the GP know about your concerns. I booked an appointment with my mother's GP at one point when we were tearing our hair out - I had POA so easier but it's fine for you to go along and say that you completely appreciate that they can't discuss anything about your parents with you but that you have information that you think they need to know. This may trigger a referral - and of course your parents may not engage but at least you will have tried to keep them safe.

As others have said, the immediate risk is around toileting and pressure sores. But there are other risks around cooking etc and it's not unreasonable of you to tell someone your concerns and let a professional decide if it warrants a referral or not. Plus sometimes people engage better with offered help when it comes from someone who isn't as close and is more official.

Sincerely hope that, if I reached a point where I couldn't manage to get into my own bed or to the toilet, but didn't want to burden anyone, that someone would come and do these things tbh.

They're not cosmetic changes, it's about adding things that make them continuing to live independently possible. If you're making decisions such as those described above, then there does exist a possibility that they're not making sound decisions, particularly as the effects seem long term without help!

Our family looks after each other, and sometimes that means doing things that can be seen as being 'cruel' or intrusive to be kind - none of these are actually that intrusive, and all could be taken away again if it was genuinely a case that it wasn't needed, but I highly doubt it would be! A social worker turning up and removing one or both of their parents to a home/ hospital would be a much more intrusive option! My mum bought her mum a shopping trolley a couple of years ago, she was mightily offended (I'm not that old, I managed fine, I don't need the help!), until my mum forced her to take it one week, low and behold she loves it now, it's 'so convenient', and she thinks I should have one too! She had a bad fall a while back, and on her discharge from hospital, she said 'i don't need any help, I can manage fine' and my mum had to insist she did need a life alert button, but she got it and everyone is better for it. Sometimes these things just need to happen, forced for not!

You have had excellent advice OP. But you seem passive and reluctant to do anything. What have you tried so far?

Your Dad has zero mobility, he needs special cushions to prevent pressure sores and help with washing and toileting. This is serious.

do you know when he last went to the bathroom or the last time he had a shower? Who is cleaning the house for them? Washing and drying their clothes?

I do think @Pigeonangel that you need to find out about your dad’s bowel situation: that could provide a reason for intervention regardless of what they are saying

please be realistic. If this man is stuck in his chair, that has multiple health consequences. Absolutely call 999, absolutely paramedics will attend. I work in A&E, and absolutely elderly people are brought in for this on many occasions-possibly the county the OP lives in has an admission avoidance service that may be referred to by the paramedics, but for anyone-if you have an elderly relative who CANNOT TRANSFER FROM A CHAIR OR BED-call 999, as they are at huge risk of pressure sores, dehydration, infection from unable to get to a toilet, putting family members at risk as they attempt to transfer them, falls if they attempt to transfer themselves.
or what is your solution? Leave them there?

Well, yes. We tried everything in our power (and all agencies) to get my FIL out of his chair but he simply wouldn’t have it. Eventually he was too weak to resist and the fire service came to do it. I am not exaggerating when I say that this was a low point in everyone’s life and will never be forgotten.

If there was an easy way to avoid similar situations becoming a crisis though, we’d all know about it. I think until you’ve encountered the sheer force of will of the terminally stubborn, who legally have capacity, it’s hard to understand why people don’t simply do all the completely obvious things suggested here.