Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

Have asked for Early Help? You need to show that isn’t working before social services become involved.
Have you considered boarding school? I sometimes wonder if mine had gone if she’d be any different because she was much better behaved for school than home.
what is she like in school holidays? Better or worse? That will give you an idea if she’s masking.

Take videos. It’s much easier to show the GP and school what you’re talking about when you have literally proof.

OP, we are in exactly the same boat with our 7 year old DD.

perfect at school. No issues at all.

At home she is awful, attacks me daily, destroys her room. She literally terrorises our family. Our mental health is crumbling by the day, our relationship is a wreck and our other kids have to listen to her screaming, shouting and ruining every activity.

People who haven’t dealt with it just don’t grasp it at all.

We’ve had Early Years help but our case was closed because our home environment is fine. She’s safe, warm, fed and loved. Paediatrician tells me she’s not autistic because she had a conversation with her. She’s got a sleep clinic appointment next month because evenings are two hours of solid terror. I hope to god they give us melatonin.

There literally is no support.

Genuine question here...

People keep saying "no you can't just give your child up" but surely if you just take them somewhere safe like police or school and refuse to take them back, how can ss force you to take them back?

I'm not talking about ethics or anything, just literally what would actually happen?

I know it's really difficult to be in limbo whilst on the waiting lists but what are you doing in the meantime? You don't have to have a diagnosis to begin using coping mechanisms and strategies for parenting children that are autistic.
You may not want to hear it but life does need to adjust. Autism is a disability as much as some people can still go to university, get a job etc. it is still a disability and as parents you need to adapt your parenting and the home to help support her.

Undiagnosed children, especially girls hear up to 20,000 more negative messages about them than their NT peers. It's important to separate bad behaviour and struggling with being ND.

I'd really recommend you read this article to see what it is like living in her brain -

medium.com/invisible-illness/i-wasnt-a-difficult-child-so-why-was-i-always-told-i-was-146910e37bad

She needs to be medicated. You need to seek a private diagnosis.

You also need to take some self defence courses and learn pressure points on the body. To be absolutely clear - this is not to hurt her but is to protect yourself.

I have a severely autistic child who would severely injure me. I had so many head injuries and they even chipped my tooth. I’ve also ended up in the ER with bleeding next to my optic nerve and permanent damage to my vision. I thought there is no way I could deal with the behaviour when they are a teenager. In therapy the therapists just let the children rage. I’ve tried that at home (just letting them do what they want) - I had neighbours knocking on my door.

Unless parents actually live this they have absolutely no idea what we are going through.

Ask the GP for a referral to a child psychologist. Whatever your child's needs, one of them has worked out exactly how to play you and your husband and now your child needs to face a different person without the emotional attachment. Depending on your financial situation, you may want to consider having a nanny. It takes courage and comes with fees but you it may be possible to meet one and then decide whether it or not it may work for you as a family. It may be worth the cost when you consider what this is costing not just the 8yr old but everyone in the family in terms of their mental health and wellbeing.

https://www.super-nannies.co.uk/ OR

https://harmonyathome.co.uk/super-nannies-nanny-experts/
However, I understand this is not an option everyone can afford.

I set out what will happen in my post above.
The child will be passed from pillar to post between random strangers (agency carers) whilst the social worker tries everything to get the child home or with a family member. If they really won't take the child then they stay in the emergency care arrangement until a placement can be found which can take days or weeks even. The child will be placed in the first placement who will be willing to take them wherever it's a good match or 300 miles away from their family. It's all shit.

Sounds familiar. I started trying to find ways to help with a webinar from a lady who's son was violent - look up Newbold-Hope.

Sent ear defenders to school, chewy pencil toppers, asked for school to let my son use time out cards. Requested he take part in ELSA.

What i would do differently knowing what i know now. Not spoken on way home from school, no questions, no errands. Quiet, get home, squeeze him. My son would spend the first 10 mins kicking my car seat every day. I thought he hated me.

Assume she's autistic and try to find a local group where you can start talking to other parents. It's really trial and error, i tried everything anyone mentioned to me. Some helped, some didnt. Just being able to speak to people who understand is invaluable.

My biggest win was a period of time where i excessively praised any wanted behaviour. Really over praise and touch them as you praise. That saw big improvements for us, but mine is an only child so didn't have that sibling interaction to deal with.

Yes.

Very.

You seem to be under the impression I think this is a good solution, when I've said twice it's absolutely shit. Unfortunately, we don't currently live in a society where immediate assistance is available unless you do something drastic and absolutely shit. If a family is in crisis and two other children are in danger (not to mention OP who seems at serious risk of physical harm), then something has to be done as a matter of urgency. Not a half measure that might happen 18 months down the road.

She doesn’t have any friends and her teacher says she’s just quiet at school and doesn’t really talk to anyone.

Makes me so cross that school can see she’s really quiet, not socializing like most kids would, but will still say she’s basically fine. That’s not fine! I was exactly like that as a child, quiet and well behaved, “mature”. But inside, so terrified to get anything wrong, not able to be myself, missing out on so many growing and learning experiences as a result. No one cared because I wasn’t causing trouble but it should have been obvious I needed help. Sorry they’re not supporting better.

I find it extraordinary that there is no safe guarding of the other children in this scenario. They aren’t physically or emotionally safe. SS need to act. Help ought to be offered. This is so very sad for all concerned.

Yes it does happen and some parents do this

The PP has already outline the reality of trying to place a child with this level of need and physical risk to others. There are no foster placements that are able to take children like this either because FC genuinely dont want to work with this, but also becuse they have other children placed, their own children there or look after grandchildren regularly. They cant risk harm to those children. Many FC are single women

So a desperate search for residential care, after many hours of trying to get authorisation while FC attempts are made initially. Residential placements usually dont take children in an emergency, they are planned placements, with introductions and transitions that can take up to a week or so.

So the child sits in the office just like described. Taken out by various support workers or duty SW to go bowling or for mcdonalds, or an icecream or anything to keep the child out of the office and occupied. They dont have any home comforts with them, no clothes other than waht they're wearing, no answer can be given, one minute a placement is secured, child informed, sets off to travel there, next minute the provider pulls out. Usually while the SW and child are on the road having started the journey. Helpful

The child may or may not end up being cared for by sessional workers overnight at a hotel/caravan park, whichever is nearby and available.

This could go on for some time.

Hi

I think you're being horribly let down here, OP. Assuming you mean Guillain-Barré Syndrome, there's a bunch of emerging evidence that it can lead to quite significant neurodevelopmental 'disorders' - some of which mimic autism.

Before I was a teacher, I worked in neuroscience.

As I say, it's emerging but I would assume your child's presentation is primarily medical with social behaviours, and your GP needs to be more supportive and (as a family) you possibly need urgent intervention.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39518945/#:~:text=IL%2D1%20Blockade%20Mitigates%20Autism,to%20Group%20B%20Streptococcus%20Chorioamnionitis

No other advice but just wondering as a coping mechanism in the meantime, could you and your husband divide and conquer and take the other two kids and one of you keeps the 8 year old?

I’m sorry … this is a very hard situation. Do you think she feels overwhelmed trying to match up to her siblings behaviour? I wonder if you ever take her out on a one to one basis and give her time on her own with you? Just the two of you.
I am no expert just trying to help.

"can-we-give-up-one-of-our-children" aka, sacrifice this one, so everyone else is "saved"?

Because it's bloody hard? Ofc you can't, fgs.

That it's even on your radar @pinkstargaze!!

Do you think it's really best for OP and her DD for her to go into care?

Yes and then Local Authorities get blamed up and down the country for
a) spending 10k a week on care placements
b) placing children hundreds of miles from their families
c) children being out of education because they've been moved out of their home area and so lose their school place
d) children needing re referrals to CAMHS in the new area and go to the bottom of the waiting list again due to the move
e) blamed by the new area for moving 'problem children' to them

@pinkstargaze please DM me, this sounds incredibly familiar x

What is she like over a long period away from school like the summer holidays?

What consequences have you introduced? If she behaves at school, she can behave at home as she clearly knows how to be have

Yes. Even if it's just temporary. The other children in the family deserve to feel safe and secure. Which is impossible under the circumstances.

I think if OP is in crisis and the other two children are in danger then no options are off the table.

This sounds so hard.

Your daughter is acting like this precisely because she is masking in school.
I think you should have a meeting with the SENCO and explain how she behaves at home and how this impacts you as a family. What can school put in place to support her?