Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

Tbf there is far more OP could be doing/learning rather than just waiting for an assessment

My 6 year old is autistic. I’ve been really struggling with some aspects of his behaviour. I reached out to my local family centre and it’s been a godsend

If you do that you'll be likely to get a visit from the police for child abandonment.

Private clinical psychologist should be your next port of call before traumatising her by kicking an eight year old little girl out of her home.

There's a state funded residential school near me that accepts children when families just can't cope any more. I think the bar is quite high though.
Please contact social services, school and your GP and explain all this to them. Don't hide it.
It isn't your fault and you are not to blame.

In the short term you could try a few low demand parenting strategies to help when she immediately comes out of school. Our PDA DD benefitted from being met at the school pick up with a snack that she had chosen in the morning. She would eat this on the way home.
Keep verbal interaction to a minimum.
Use signs, PECS, or even what's app/text when she's old enough to have a phone.
Give her noise cancelling headphones.
As soon as she's home, let her have quiet time by herself to decompress.
Maybe put the softest pyjamas on.
Our DD liked to go to her room to just stroke the dog, others like to snuggle under a weighted blanket, or go outside and do "sensory" activities.
Does she do any "heavy" work, that involves pushing, pulling, squashing etc? If not, that's something to consider. Our DD loved the physicality and discipline of ju jitsu.

There is a wonderful psychologist on Facebook called Dr Naomi Fisher, she is an amazing advocate for families like yours (and mine) and I've learned so much from her.
Also a private autism specialist OT might be able to help.

Once these kids learn coping strategies, things can quickly turn for the better. You are not alone and please don't give up hope.

support and education page linked

forum.ambitiousaboutautism.org.uk/page/community

Yes this happened to me. Ds from the age of 11 upwards was extremely violent towards me and his younger sisters, he was also waiting for assessment for autism( already had a diagnosis of adhd) considering he’d tried to push me down the stairs, hit me and his siblings and left bruises, almost severed his 5 year old sisters finger deliberately in a door frame, smashed his room, and doors, and was an absolute nightmare. His sisters were absolutely traumatised, I really needed respite care and all social services said? We shall take your 3 girls into care to protect them and leave you with ds. Why punish my girls who done nothing wrong? Probably easier for them to find places for 3 well behaved girls than a violent teen

I stopped asking for help from then onwards and just phoned the police instead every time he was violent. That surprisingly worked, and he did calm down eventually, and then got diagnosed with autism

social services can get fucked.

Hes 26 now and a lot better. Has a job and kids of his own. No thanks to ss, absolutely useless

Ive had SS round today, we’re in a similar situation. Can’t say I’m holding my breath for much help.
Even with CAMHS, social services etc involved there’s not much out there. BUT:
I would emphasise trying to get school on side - connecting the home child to the school child so you can stop living this double life. Whether that’s showing videos/pics of property damage /meltdowns to the SENCO or whatever.

If they can acknowledge she isn’t fine, she can begin maybe getting adaptations there which could bring her meltdowns down at home (if possible.)

Are there circumstances she’s been more regulated in? Could one of you do something radical and take time off work and just focus on her - take her out of school, try and identify what helps her a bit. My child struggles having a sibling tbh, needs that 1:1. It’s unfair on the ones that cope but if you can, facilitate it.
Its very very hard when a child is like this but bright enough to mask it everywhere.

Look up Newbold Hope group. Take a week off, call everywhere saying you’re in crisis. Find a private psychiatrist.

Not saying any of these will immediately solve anything but it helped me when I stopped attempting to pretend we were a normal family with a dark secret and just acknowledged “we are in crisis, I’m trying everything”.
Dont give up on her - she’s said sorry, she can’t help it, though I know how unliveable it is 😞

OP, I have a daughter similar to yours. These are the things that help:

A sensory break as sooon as she leaves the school gate. No talking, no radio in the car but she does need a crunchy snack
Sensory support - we had a sensory OT assessment in the summer. We’ve found our daughter likes being ‘massaged’ by rolling a peanut ball across her back with deep pressure, she also benefits from an Indian head massage, she has a mini trampoline that she jumps on when she needs to get some aggression out, she also has a spinning chair to help her regulate after school

It sounds like she might need an EHCP and a low arousal setting with limited class sizes. A sensory OT and a SALT assessment especially designed for an EHCP application would help immensely with this (£650 each is what we paid, and waiting times are limited)

This is a bit pie in the sky. Telling social services that you are wanting to give up your child won't magically unlock the doors of extra help because they have no obligation to take your child into care so there is no sense of 'if we spend this money now we will save X later' - social services really don't have resources or help for patents of ND children, they are not financially resourced to provide that kind of support.

Sorry I don’t know anything about this - but didn’t want to read and run as what you’re going through sounds incredibly difficult. I hope you get good advice - and a good outcome for all of you.

Jesus Christ.

It's not unusual for home life to be like this when a child is masking all day in school. Our home life was so much nicer when my child got an EHCP and moved to a specialist setting. I'd look into that asap.

There was an article about children with this personality in the Telegraph magazine last Saturday which you might find useful or at least interesting.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/parenting/dangerous-children-psychopathic-behaviour/

The breezy advice here - just get a therapist, Ed psych, play therapy, private assessment, etc etc etc

Not everyone can afford ths, why the assumption this is available to OP?

If it is, great, but its not for most families.

No but they can put pressure on other services, social services got my child bumped to the top of the waiting list with CAHMs which led to her getting diagnosed with adhd and autism

But, they could see I'd exhausted every other avenue of support and my DD only had meltdowns at school, she was so chilled at home, I'd got her several types of therapies ect.

I was fortunate that our social worker had an ND child herself so also recognised it in my DD, she was a brilliant advocate for us

I am not advising or encouraging this, but if you feel you have no other option then speak to a solicitor about an application under section 20 of the Children's Act 1989. This allow's children who cannot live with their parents to be accommodated by the Local Authority, but you do not lose parental rights. S.20 is not usually at the request of the parents, but it can be requested. It is intended as a temporary solution while support to allow your child to return home are explored, but there is no time limit.

Do what you need to do for your family including your DD but also your other DCs. There does not need to be any judgement.

There's tons of free advice and support online, books in libraries that can help ect

I'm not sure this is the place for such a serious issue. Try your GP or the school or anywhere but a chat room.

This child is not 'highly dangerous' or a psychopath. She's a neurodivergent child who needs different support.

Heavy, heavy nonsense. This child is not displaying psychopathic tendencies

The fact she says sorry to you, has remorse etc suggests this isn’t her character. It also should give you hope. She definitely sounds ND

Also try pda techniques. A lot of asd children are demand avoidant and it's low demand which can be really helpful when your child is likely to meltdown over anything due to being exhausted from masking https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-helps-guides/childhood/

It is absolutely the right place to anonymously seek support. OP will likely receive a lot of support here that might just get her through tonight.
Most posters are advising to contact GP, school and social services as well as offering other advice re what worked for them.