Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

What is she like in the school holidays OP? Is she less violent? I’m thinking if school is the issue here then she needs to be pulled out? Which is easier said than done I know.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this OP

You’re correct in your summation that a diagnosis will make little difference to your DD’s behaviour, but what it will do is hopefully open doors for you to understand why she does the things she does and how you can try to help her.

My DC is 11 and has ‘high needs*’ autism, he attends special school - it took me a year of fighting the local authority to get that, we also have a disability social worker who set us up with direct payments so we could hire a carer to look after him for a certain number of hours a week. He has a blue badge. We have a Motability car. He is A LOT. A toddler trapped inside the body of a very strong and fast eleven year old. He starts his day early and loud and finishes late and loud. Parenting him is easily ten times more exhausting than parenting his sibling, who is neurotypical.

The thing is though, we adore him. He is the absolute joy of my life and I find much of what he does beautiful. DH and I have developed coping strategies that work for us all when he has a meltdown or tries to hurt me or DH. We strategise constantly, ensuring both of our kids are happy and safe. It is VERY tiring and a lot of work - we own our own business and I have a very minor admin role within it whereas DH does the bulk of the work. That’s the only way we could both technically work - someone has to be around for DS 24/7.

This is a bit rambly and long but I hope you’re still here - you can get some of this under control. In terms of next steps I’d do the following:

1. get diagnosis
2. Keep a folder with all emails from school/assessments etc, even ones you’ve sent
3. apply for Disability Living Allowance for DD (go to Cerebra website for guide on applying)

after you’ve been awarded DLA…

4. Apply for Carer’s Allowance
5. Ask your local authority for a Carer’s Assessment

Just take it slowly and step by step, we’re talking months here so you won’t get overwhelmed.

In the meantime remember this: all behaviour is communication - what do you think she’s trying to tell you when she has meltdowns?

There are lots of things i think it would be worth doing OP.

First talk to school. If she has ASD and PDA then she really needs any pressure taken off her as much as possible. So not being asked any direct questions, given the option to opt out as much as possible - ie school plays, assemblies, even taking the register and anything that might increase her anxiety. Not being made to do homework, not to have any concerns about things she is getting 'wrong', given choice. If you can really reduce the amount of anxiety she is feeling at school then it's likely to help at home. You will need to go into school and have a really good chat with the teacher and perhaps SENCO.

At home what happens after school? Does she come home in the car? If so perhaps have her sat in the front away from the other kids, I'd bring a drink and bread sticks for her and have a story/songs she likes to listen to. No asking her any questions, no having her bothered by the other kids. If you walk or she gets the bus then have a snack, drink at the gate or as soon as she gets in and a story to wind down if she'd like that.

Does she have her own room - if not then IMO you have to do whatever is necessary to make that happen. She needs her own space. I'd also consider a tent bed or something like that where she has her own den she can hide away and decompress. When she gets in let her spend her whole time in her room alone if that's what she wants - I'd even let her eat there if that is better for her. Maybe a little desk and chair if she'd like that or a lap tray.

I think it will really help if you forget general parent advice, see her as a child trying to cope with extreme anxiety and doing everything you can to help her reduce the anxiety. That doesn't mean letting her do whatever she likes - I'd avoid screens unless she can cope with limits (unlikely). But it means having a clear routine so she know what to expect with no surprises, lots of time to decompress, lots of quiet, calm time. Also a very calm, gentle, positive attitude from you and her dad, knowing what she can and can't cope with. Phrasing things so they are not demands if she does need to do something.

I think you really have to hold onto the fact that she doesn't want to be like this - she's just not coping. Hold on to that apology and hug, she needs your help and support because she doesn't know how to manage this herself. She needs you to work out how to help her and how to make her feel better. This will likely be much more about changing yourselves and how your house works and advocating on her behalf rather than trying to change her. Good luck!

Yes, film her.
Report honestly with evidence to Social Services.
Ask them for a case wroker and a Foster Carer.

Some weekends with your DD8 away with a Foster Carer might give you all a well earned break while you await the assessment.

I think you need to arrange a meeting with the school. They're giving you contradictory information in saying she's fine there but then saying she doesn't have any friends and doesn't talk to anyone. They may not realise it but they're probably sitting on a lot of information about her. It was something my daughter's teacher told me about her at school, without remotely.realising the significance, that caused the penny to drop for me. Speak to them again, do something practical in that sense and hopefully it will clear some things up.

100%
Children act out when they have been neglected or abused.

It's become a fad to stick a label on these children (ADHD, ND, PAD, etc, etc, etc.).

Mothers not coping in the home, suffering from post-partum depression, jealous of any attention their daughter gets from their own father and lots more causes a lot of women to mistreat their own children. Domestic abuse by the father of the mother is another very common cause of child abuse - women are not saints, they pass it on down the line to the children more often than not.

Yes don’t wait. Whatever you learn will help op.

Take the time to understand and learn how to treat her so she will de escalate.

Yes op it is hard work I have a similar child. It has never crossed my mind to walk away. What I did do was educate myself. Found a better school that understood. Sent my child for play therapy. When a child acts like this it’s for a reason. When it happened to my child at a similar age they were being bullied. Reach out to local autism services. Read all the books, joined the fb pages. Only you and dh can change this, it’s not her fault. You have a child who is massively misunderstood right now. Home is her safe place which is why she is letting it out there. You need to start looking at it from her perspective.

I would strongly advise against that.
Punishing the child is not going to solve the problem.
Putting a small child in foster care greatly increases the risk of sexual abuse, particularly of little girls and should be avoided at all cost.

This just tells me there’s something wrong at home, not with her.

In the nicest way, and I’m not pointing fingers.. but could there be an element of her knowing you treat her differently? It doesn’t sound like you give her much positive reinforcement like you would your others children. All the things written in your post just look like you hate her, which if that’s come across in a MN post, it will definitely be coming across at home too.

I would assume she’s gone through a patch of behavioural issues which have got you down and it’s spiralled and now you’re at rock bottom not knowing what to do, but you’re bringing those emotions into her life, she doesn’t feel respected or loved by her family at home.

It sounds like a really shit situation and I’m sorry that’s it’s happening to you. My advice would be to find a family therapist and visit together.

Why haven't you gone private?

I know you shouldn't have to and the NHS should be ther - but Jesus OP, you're talking about giving one of your children away.It will destroy her AND your other children - surely you'd remortgage the house, get another job, literally ANYTHING before you took that last resort?

If you do tell SS that you want to do that they will offer you some support before they comply. So if you really mean it, do that.

PDA is real, but it's rarer than people think. There's no harm in trying the PDA techniques, although I found they didn't work with my daughter when I suspected she had PDA as what was actually happening was she was so overwhelmed by attending school with no support that she was permanently in fight or flight mode. Getting the autism diagnosis didn't actually help much (though useful to have), what really made a difference was finally getting her EHCP so she had more support at school. Another possibility is that the conflict between autism and ADHD can look like PDA in children who have both. We did lower demands at home, but no demands at all doesn't work for her as she needs routine and structure.

Of course she can. It might not be what you think is appropriate, but you absolutely can do this and many people have.

Child psychologist now. Your 8 year old sounds like a nightmare, but there are 2 sides to every story-it's about time you started investigating the other side of this one.

Lots of families in your situation go down the home ed route.
My friends little girl was 10 and just like yours, no help from school. She took her out to home educate after the summer. They also can't afford not to work so they've moved areas slightly and she works 1 weekday and 2 weekend days and he works 4 weeks days. I think it's a real slog for them and no family time. But their dd hasn't had meltdowns for a long time and is a lot more regulated. They don't have a plan for when she's older yet.

I don't think many can afford to give up work but you have to make it work for your family if it's the right thing for her.

To answer your question, no you can’t give up one of your children. BUT my dc did end up going into care at the age of 12. However. they were worse in school than they were at home and had been since the age of four. All the agencies and services were involved and they had multiple diagnoses from the age of 5.

I would say age 8 was when they really went off the rails and after they were arrested at school age 11 social workers started to take the situation seriously. There was pressure from the police too. Also they were not safe due to their behaviour and that was taken more seriously than the aggressive behaviour towards me and their siblings.

I would say it was a different situation to yours.

If the dc is ok at school it might be the home situation that needs work alone. I know re masking but the op sounds strained already and probably needs respite.

I really hope she looks at what methods can help her dd to de escalate when home.

I haven’t read every comment so apologies if this has been mentioned before but I’d definitely recommend checking out “At Peace Parents” on FB/Instagram, she is a parent to two PDA boys and has loads of interesting information and advice. The PDA society helpline/email support has also been excellent. My daughter is also 8, recently diagnosed with ASD, probable PDA profile and I feel everything you’ve mentioned in your post so deeply.

Sorry some posters are blaming you, OP. Some children do have conditions that make them difficult to live with which are independent of anything parents do. But different parenting strategies can help enormously.

Hi, I am a social worker for children who can not live with their parents. I worked with a teenager a few years ago whose mother could not manage his violence. He went to a care home, the other children stayed with their mother. Your child is much younger so I would look at what else is available to you to help her. Going into care could damage any potential future relationship with her.
In my area we offer a service called 'early help' it's a step below social services, but sits under the umbrella of council childrens services. Have a look and see if you can self refer.

I’m just reading ‘and I don’t want to live this life ‘ by Deborah Spungen the mother of Nancy which you might find interesting. It covers exactly this scenario.

Well I’d say it’s more likely that she simply doesn’t respond well to the same kind of parenting that her other siblings have.

just bumping this post for @pinkstargaze

I have ADHD. I wasn't abused by my mother or father, or anyone. Nor was I neglected.

It is hereditary in my family. I think it's pretty awful to try to shame a mother who is at her wits' end, and also imply that these conditions are somehow 'made up'.

Children CAN 'act out' when neglected or abused. It doesn't mean this is the only cause or reason.

I haven't RTFT but wanted to say to the OP - 18 months we were in a similar position. Since then we have had a diagnosis and things have massively improved since my DC stopped masking all day at school. I feel for you and wanted you to know there is light at the end of the tunnel. I know we will have harder days to come but overall everything is a lot easier than it was before the diagnosis.