Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

Could you afford to pay to see an occupational therapist who specialises in working with children with ND. They may well help with regulation of her emotions. I know someone whose children went to one and it really helped them to deal with their frustration, express their needs and regulate their emotions.

I think some people are really glossing over how much the school structure, systems and culture can dysregulate children. Some will act out at school, and some will manage to hang on until they get home but the dysregulation is happening for many regardless. Nothing about this sounds like there's something wrong at home, the OP has clearly been trying to access support and has done everything right. School is a big glaring flag.

The ones I’ve came across are normally the golden child.

Yes it’s a good post

but @ScarlettSarah, did your parents even contemplate "sending" you into care because they couldn't cope?

Your situation may not have been as extreme as @pinkstargaze suggests?

She sounds like she's moving into fight or flight and getting dysregulated.

What is happening in the five minutes before she shouts? Before she breaks something? Before she hits you? Working that out will help you come up with a different way of responding to her.

Putting her into care risks creating more problems.

You can't literally get rid of her. That's a fantasy. And you probably don't want to. You just want to get rid of the feelings you're feeling. In which case, you need to grow in your ability to contain those feelings. Things like therapy help with that. Sitting in the discomfort. Working on strategies.

Personally I don't think pathologising a child with a diagnosis is the answer.

Although plenty these days do. As we can sadly see from this thread.

Hi, I have three children, and my middle child sounded very similar to your daughter. He masked at school and then lashed out as soon as we left — it was incredibly difficult and had a big impact on the whole family.

In the end, I chose to home educate him as we couldn’t carry on like that. We had tried flexi-schooling, which helped a little. During this time, he was diagnosed with ASD through our GP.

He was out of school for a year, and although it was challenging, I managed to transition him into a much smaller village school. He’s nearly 11 now, and while he still has the occasional meltdown, life is completely different to how it was before.

I know home educating isn’t possible for everyone, but I just wanted to share my experience in case it helps.

I read a lot of books and changed my parenting style towards my middle son, and I continue to parent him differently. He can’t really handle direct authority, if that makes sense, I have to give him options. Maybe research about Pathological Demand Avoidance, that helps me manage him.

Take care.

This! I would also play the footage back to your DD so she can see her behaviour and how it is affecting people.

Is this a good idea? I can imagine her dd is struggling already. She needs support and coping mechanisms more than anything.

Please don't show her. She will be incredibly ashamed and it will just destroy what little self esteem she has left. It is cruel :(

and what if the mother is the cause of this girl's behaviour?
How will home ed help then?

It can be helpful but only really under guidance from a therapist type of input to prepare the child and parent (because the parent might not like what they see of themselves either) and with a clear plan of why the child might see it or what they obtain from it

Lots of unintended outcomes might come from showing a child what they look like in a tantrum or meltdown, not just about the child feeling embarrassed or ashamed, they may feel paranoid about cameras everywhere, not trusting their parent, conversely it might make them 'perform' for the camera if they think thats happening.

Not a great idea unless part of a plan of intervention with a professional

Um what?! Stupid, horrible thing to do which won’t help.

The child is waiting for an autism assessment and her behaviour very likely stems from anxiety.

I worry that some people still believe that cruelty and humiliation is good parenting.

Do NOT shame your disabled child like this. Would you show a physically disabled child a video shaming them for their disability? Just because her neurodiversity is an unseen disability doesn’t make it ok to video and shame your child. This is ableist discrimination and you need to change your lens. We need to advocate for our ND kids.

Absolutely not.

Ik don’t do that suggestion op.

That is incredibly unlikely. Most parents offer "good enough" parenting. It would have to be extremely abusive to produce behaviour problems like this and there is no evidence for it. I have two adopted children who WERE abused and who had all sorts of issues. Both were seen as having attachment problems, early neglect problems for years. We only started getting somewhere when they were diagnosed with adhd / PDA. Neurodiversity exists - stop blaming everything on early trauma.

In fact, filming her must be done covertly if at all, and only for the eyes of a professional.

My dd would be very upset and angry if I filmed her during a tantrum and it would definitely make her behaviour worse not better.

It can be done without her knowing. It may be the only way to show others what OP is going through.

I have read the replies and thank you for every comment I have taken a lot more from this than I ever hoped.

I just wish she’d do as she was asked instead of the reflex fuck off to everything I ask.
I wish she’d say can I have something to eat instead of get me food now bitch, followed by a thump in the back while she’ll repeat food, food, food, now now, while hitting me the whole time that I’m making her something and when I say I’m doing it, she shouts well faster you idiot, it’s so degrading.
I don’t want to live in that environment, I don’t swear, I know lots of people do but I don’t want a home like that, I have worked hard to make a nice home and she trashes it.

My other children are shocked and upset by this, they are very well mannered, kind and caring and we chat about their day and then I ask about her day and get shut up or fuck off and a punch.
How can I have a relationship with someone when I’m afraid of speaking to her because I’ll get hit or kicked?

It’s not all during a melt down, this is how she usually is, she slowly runs her finger near my eyes to make me flinch, I am intimidated, who wouldn’t be being called a stupid idiot constantly and hit if things aren’t done how she wants or quick enough, she will demand something now and if I’m talking or doing something with one of the others she will get in my face and repeat the demand at the top of her voice until I do it, how is that fair on the others needs when she interrupts loudly every time they want me just to stop them being heard.

The meltdowns I described are something else but the nastiness and contempt is always there, she chucks her rubbish on the carpet and won’t put it in the bin while her siblings tidy up after themselves and do as they’re asked she laughs at them like they are mugs.
I try not to put too many demands on her but it’s the insults and the violence I try and calmly tell her it’s not acceptable but she seems delighted that those things upset us so does it more.
If I ever say stop something, or don’t be rude for example she’ll just say ‘no, you don’t be rude.

It’s heartbreaking to hear her call her siblings names and belittle them constantly but she gets such satisfaction out of seeing them upset, if they walk past her at home she’ll give them a swipe for no reason.

When did this all start??

That’s called equalising behaviour. If you look up At Peace Parents you’ll understand more. Also the PDA Society has some great courses. Start with low demand parenting, let go of everything you know to let her nervous system recover. My daughter did all this and is now the sweetest most empathetic darling, and we make sure she has accommodations in place so that there is not too much pressure on her. Wishing you all the best on your journey. There’s a great Facebook group for parents of PDA kids if you need to hear success stories. But I’d start with At Peace Parents as she explains it all so well. The violence is equalising behaviour after the stress of masking all day at school.

You are living through a horrible nightmare and I wish there was some solution to help you all. Show the GP and teachers this thread for a start. Is there anywhere your daughter could stay, perhaps with other relatives for a while, just to give you a rest. You cannot go on like this . You and the rest of the family need to get away from her or you will have a breakdown.

We had an awful time with my son until he saw a counsellor, he knocked teeth out of my daughters face by slapping her so hard twice, he broke multiple tvs, gave me two black eyes, broke floor tiles, kitchen cabinets, banister’s, doors, punched holes in walls smashed computers phones etc, he saw a counsellor, was diagnosed with ADHD and is now on medication, but just seeing a counsellor made him a different child. I was advised to board him at school by several friends and my mum, and I did almost consider it to save my marriage x

There was a similar thread on here recently about a six year old little boy attacking his family. He behaved at school - some said he was masking. Some would not believe the situation, that a small child could wreak so much havoc. I wonder what happened about him. Perhaps his mum has read this thread and will tell us.