Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

It’s school. She’s masking at school, like you said, then it’s all coming out at home (her safe space). I would take her out of school before I put her into care.

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Thanks. This is a pre clinical study on rats though, rather than anything that has a sound clinical basis in medicine currently. I don’t disagree with your conclusions, they need urgent intervention but it’s a stretch to say this is all secondary to neonatal infection. (DOI: paediatrician)

If you can afford - go privately for assessment. My son had every single symptom of ADHD since he was 2. However, he was heavily masking at nursery and school didn't bother to care, except complaining that he learning "bad behaviour" from his father.
I actually took a loan to fo it but zero regrets, we got lots of help as a family.

Have no advice regarding whats happening with your child, but I will clear up that YES you absolutely can have one child in care and keep their siblings. It does happen, however it isn’t easy and there are many steps ahead to have tried first before the LA will accept your child into care. DH has been a SW for over 35 yrs and has seen this situation a few times.

Can I ask what condition your little one has ?
We have ASD DX and are currently awaiting PDA but Sen school have mentioned probable learning difficulties too ,,she took can be lovely and caring and a absolute nightmare in equal measure ? Tia

Would the care system really be able to cope tho and would residential care not be the option AFTER all other avenues had been explored IF parents still genuinely couldnt cope after receiving all relevant support and learning coping strategies,,,I just can't imagine putting a already extremely vulnerable and volatile child into the care system ,, heartbreaking.

She’s undergoing an NHS ND assessment right now, through ‘right to choose’. She was previously diagnosed in a private psychological assessment (arranged by the adoption services) as having probable FASD with autism and ADHD traits.

Pay for therapy, family therapy ideally. Waiting for others to act doesn't work anymore, the NHS and social care are in crisis.

OP, things can get better. Both my son (who has ADHD and suspected ASD) and my stepdaughter (who has possible ADHD and/or FASD) have had long periods where we were in utter despair like this while their behaviour was... well, it sounds very similar to what you describe. They are now 15 and 11 respectively and both doing well. It helped us to get an EHCP in place to help alleviate some of the pressure at school that led to masking that led to more explosive behaviour at home. We also asked for Early Help and had a wonderful lady who taught us more about nonviolent resistance and that sort of thing. I feel for you, it is very frustrating when you are seeking help and the waiting list is so long. CAMHS are as much use as a chocolate fireguard in our area.

She sounds neurodivergent. I am a teacher with two children who have autism and adhd, dyslexia, dysgraphia and one with developmental coordination disorder and learning difficulties.

You need to access support groups.

Self refer to PEGS -it is for parents who experience Child to Parent violence and agression.

I'd say she probably needs a low demand environment at home....have a look into this.

It's very hard to do but try not to react when she is in meltdown mode. Get your other children to a safe area/a different room. If you are crying and shouting, the noise can escalate the behaviour because she cannot cope with it from a sensory perspective. You need to "strike when the iron is cold", which is to say you discuss how inappropriate her behaviour was when she is regulated again.

Does she struggle with attending school?

I'm busy right now but will type more advice later?

@pinkstargazemy daughter was diagnosed by Caudwell Children last year. Local authorities accept their diagnostic assessments because they follow nice guidelines. They do assessments for children aged 4-11 I believe. Maybe give them a call? They also offer post diagnosis support.

My daughter was diagnosed within 8 weeks.

Good advice.

Pay for private diagnosis. Do whatever you can to get the money.

Very little support, if any, comes with a diagnosis. I'm not sure why other posters seem to think this will be the magic fix.

I also have three children, who who are easy and one who was similar to your daughter.

See if going low demand will work for you. We are low demand in some ways but also have very rigid rules in others which has worked well for us. Strict bedtime routin, no screens after a certain time, none of our children have ipads, etc.

If you can afford to, I would work with a clinical psychologist who specialises in autism and pda to help support you to parent her. Then separately I would pay for a play/lego/art therapist to help support your daughter.

Coke Can Kid. Gets shaken up all day at school, then explodes at home.
Things we did to help were letting her watch Ipad on her own when we got home to just be by herself for an hour. Then 1-2-1 time with me doing lego or drawing or something. Planning the next day out (didn't often help tbh!!) and giving her some control over how her evening went.
Basically de-peopleing her after school.
The only book I found remotely helpful was The Explosive Child.
Pick your battles too! Not everything has to happen!
Good luck. It's REALLY hard work.

No but they can put pressure on other services, social services got my child bumped to the top of the waiting list with CAHMs which led to her getting diagnosed with adhd and autism

A friend's son finally got his autism assessment after friend went to the GP for help with her own MH, which was falling apart from the burden of caring for him. He had been on the CAMHS waiting list for 7 years and out of school for 6 years by then. I've no idea what the GP did, but it got him moved to the highest category of need and the assessment was done only a month or so later.

The waits for assessment are shocking imo, if there's any way you could afford to get one privately OP, I think it would be well worth it, even if you have to take out a loan.

I bet if you deregistered her from school, she would be like a different child.
School can be so traumatic and for kids like this I think the damage outweighs any educational or social benefit

I’m sorry but that is so unbelievably sad. And this is coming from a mother of 3 who like yourself has an AuDHD child with severe PDA - also a middle child. I have probably internally had bad thoughts over the years as it’s put an immense amount of strain on the family and I’ve had bouts of depression. But the one thing that stood out to me is your constant referral to a ‘perfect family’ and how lovely your other kids are. Your middle one will definitely feel this. If she is autistic, it’s a disability. She is still your child. You can’t just give her away like a household item.
There are many health professionals and organisations to offer help and support. You can even self refer to children’s services to get a family support worker who can come give the family support and also help with therapies etc for your daughter. You need to learn to understand her behaviours as being a disability rather than her choosing to be that way. OP I had to research for years myself to get a better understanding on how to communicate with my child and keep the peace. It’s a huge struggle and yes it impacts so much but you are everything to that child and their behaviour is not a reflection of how they feel for you. You are their protector and their safe space which is why you feel a lot of the negative behaviour is aimed at you.
Please seek help to try to reconnect with your child and get family support.

Hi @pinkstargaze

I don’t have time to read the whole thread now, but if you would like a recommendation for a private ASD / ADHD assessment service (can be done via video call and follows all
the NICE guidelines plus offers follow-up support and advice) please do PM me. (You’re welcome to search my username to see that I have posted before about being autistic and having ND children).

I know this doesn’t answer your question but :
Don’t wait for an assessment. Treat her as if she’s Autistic and ADHD and research information on Pathological Demand Avoidance and follow some social media accounts that might have some helpful suggestions on how to de-escalate and regulate her.
I always had to have a snack and drink ready for my daughter after school, and give her a quiet space to watch cartoons so she could recover from her day and the transition.
Search Instagram for mrsjessietownz and pdaparenting
My child will explode for the smallest reason and it’s been hard (she’s 5 nearly 6) we have to parent her different from my eldest (who is also autistic but different) and it would be a lot easier and peaceful if she wasn’t this way… but she’s also funny and clever and really sweet when she’s regulated. I’m hoping with some patience and teaching my child how to regulate herself we will eventually help her be the person she wants to be. We have seen improvements as she has gotten a bit older as well. But it is a lot of hard work.

You can apply for an EHCP on your own, it is very usual to have the school 'see nothing' due to masking, whilst you get the restraint collapse (and seeing problems costs money until the EHCP is in place).

One thing I did do during the worst times, was book DD1 in with a childminder after school, 3 afternoons a week. This meant that my DH was home when she came back home, which really helped. It also gave DD2 (and me) some respite.

DD1 never had a meltdown when with the childminder, either. (I knew her from school pickups.) She loved going there, she got on well with the childminder’s DS, who had Downs Syndrome.

It didn’t stop DD1’s violent meltdowns when she was back with us, but they were easier to manage with my DH there. And it also gave DD2 some respite.

In cases where one sibling is violent, isn't it more common to take the 'normal' children who can more easily get fostered (on the grounds of safeguarding them from violence in the home) and leave the 'difficult' one with the parents though?

I'm not sure about the UK but here in Australia you can see developmental psychiatrists over telehealth. I booked online for myself to have an ADHD assessment and was seen in 2 days. Is there such a service where you are? Just to speed things up?