Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

I can concur.
My siblings and I were put into a children's home for one week when I was 3 and it was traumatizing.

If it is PANS / PANDAS then a first step is a two week protocol of round the clock nurofen and antihistamine. If you see an improvement it’s evidence that it is P/P. Also antibiotics if she tests positive for strep. There are only two specialists that treat P/P, both private. Or there is equal success with homeopathic treatment. I see Brainstorm Health mentioned a lot.

Ha, ha,ha, fuck no. Not a fucking chance. You won't get respite either.

Strategies that help?
ADHD, a fuck ton of caffeine. (Ask other people for more ideas)

School are not meeting her needs. Meet with the Sendco and try and get some accommodations in place. (Quiet space, time out, movement breaks,) They will blame you for shit parenting. This is normal. Do a parenting course. It will either help, or provide evidence for assessment.

Autism strategies:

As soon as she is out the school door, feed her something sugary, and something with complex carbs. Heavy back pack, tight hug. Rock her side to.side. do OT calming activities every day. Try sunglasses or ear defenders big hoody,

No demands, (no questions, no chat, no shopping , no changes of routine) keep her separate from the others. They go in the car while you rock and calm. Or she goes in the car to calm while you three play outside. If you walk she goes one side, held, the others go the other side. You need to be responsible for her emotional regulation until she is capable herself.

You need to keep them separate at home. Strictly supervised.

Learn her triggers. Prevent them. (Great fun if one's autism stims trigger the other's meltdowns)

If she is in meltdown she will not respond to words or discipline. She may not remember what she has done. Safe space on her own or tight hug or rocking may help. Prevention better than cure. You need to be responsible for this, though it will mostly be school who wind her right up.

Lots of decompression time. Lots.

Daily OT will help. Ask for a referral. It might be quicker.

Ask if they have pre diagnosis parent information sessions.

Try to reframe your thinking that this child is overwhelmed and scared. It helps most of the time. Yes I've typed this before, then had to bloody work hard to put into practice and probably will again.

Get sensory toys. Try the works or Amazon. Beware of price hikes for the label sensory toy.

Check uniform for labels and general discomfort.

If school are shit, move her. Find a better one.

My narcissist of a mother could have written exactly the same kind of post about me a few decades ago (she too rarely cried).

Even to this day, with my diagnosis, treatment and well functioning neurodivergent family of my own, she will never accept that she was the problem. I was just a devil child who for all my childhood, 'love' was conditional and I was never deserving.

This level of behaviour doesn't happen in a vaccum.

Have you ever recorded any of her outbursts? Sorry you’re going through this

Nonsense! My DD joined the waiting list in 2017 and was assessed & diagnosed 2019!

I wish my social worker got me support when I reached out for help. Instead she came to the house twice to speak to me about my concerns then lied on the end report about visiting me fortnightly. I hadn't seen or heard from her for 3 months! I raised it with her manager who declared the case was closed and that was the end of it

My older sister was the middle child.
She was 5 years older and at least 75 pounds heavier than I was.
I was aware she hated me, but never so much as the night she jumped from her bed onto mine and put her hands around my tiny little neck and tried to strangle me.
She kept up the pressure until just before I passed out - everything was swimming in front of me and I couldn’t calll out.
I asked her about it not too long ago and she acted like she was deaf.
Because to admit to trying to murder your little sister is pretty dark, I guess.
And she sure enough remembers doing it. That’s not something you really forget.

Have you tried the PEGS group on FB. It's specific for CPA. ( Child to parent abuse). Very helpful forum with huge amounts of support and strategies. Your local women's aid should have some support around this too. It's really hard. Not your fault at all.

Forgot to mention, having a dog (the right dog) is very calming for some kids with PDA.

She doesn't know how to behave at school, she's too frightened to be herself at school so doesn't interact and keeps her head down. When she gets home, to her safe place, everything she's been holding in bursts out.

Actually perfectly typical with ND children. Sometimes it is the other way around too.

Not sure I’d recommend Naomi Fisher anymore after the recent controversy! Plus she doesn’t support the PDA “label” anymore apparently (not my words btw)

How very true, and sad. It has made me so sad to read that anyone would consider getting rid of their own child, regardless of behaviour. Your poor child definitely has terrible issues, and needs help. I really hope you'll get support soon, OP, an assistant who can train you to deal with this behaviour, or whatever help is available for cases like this. Very sorry for you and all your three children.

It might depend on their age, I know several teens with ASD, AUDHD and ADHD taking ssri’s, sertraline, plus melatonin for sleep, some prescribed privately and some nhs but way harder to get through nhs

I'm so sorry for all of you. ❤ Please get this documented quickly and then share it with the school and HCPs or Social Services. Audio, video, diary- keep track of everything without mentioning any of it to your children. For a true picture they should have no idea you're recording and filming. It would be eye-opening for others and might get you some help much sooner.

Sounds like autism or Oppositional defiant disorder /adhd (O. D.D ) / Sensory processing disorder. Maybe speak to the disability team.

Psychotherapist here. Difficult to get therapy on the NHS. Try to find a good child psychotherapist privately. That will help. We had a number of CPD (continuing professional development) seminars on neurodiversity. If you PM me, I can give you contact details of the psychotherapist who was leading them, she is herself a mother of an ND child.

This sounds really tough for you as a family but if you send her into foster care, that will be extremely traumatic for her.

I feel as though I’m qualified to say that as difficult as parenting a child with PDA autism can be, we’re not a victim in this situation because our children feel even worse. That is why they behave this way.

Two of my children have PDA. One, in particular has very complex needs. Before she moved into a specialist, residential school at 13, I had 2 long years of her attacking me out of nowhere and trying to escape from the house. It was a very difficult time but I think it probably was even more difficult for her.

I also have a 6 year old with PDA and she is very well behaved, and has limited behaviours. But I figured out she had it when she was 2 and I’ve tried to adapt her environment as much as possible and also I don’t use an authoritarian parenting style with her. This has really helped.

The main problem for your dd is probably school. I expect she’s extremely stressed out in a school environment that isn’t suitable for her. She holds it all in during the day and then takes it out on you, her family when she gets home.

At this point, her anxiety levels may be so high that a specialist residential school for autistic children might be the best way forward - it turned my daughters life around. You will need an EHCP for this.

@pinkstargaze apologies as haven’t read whole thread sorry if this has been suggested already.

1. it is incredibly hard you are normal to feel that
2. there are charities that can help with assessment pm me if you want more info
3. you can ask for ehcp assessment she needs support in school asap push & push
4. read up on NVR - it isn’t a magic bullet but it really does help
5. gather evidence - make a document every day write down behaviour & triggers eg went to school , once home we saw …. Etc
6. dont be fobbed off by she’s fine in school
7. read some Naomi fisher online or books
8. be kind to yourself & talk to your dp

You are not alone. I am a SENCo in a primary school and we have seen many children who are lovely in school and yet parents tell us about such awful behaviour at home.

Have you called sendiass? They should be able to point you in the direction of help.

Personally my middle daughter is also like this. We have put in unbeatable consequences for the very extreme behaviour eg hitting siblings. I take her into her room. She does trash her room but it’s not her siblings. We also read her some books portraying ASD. The one that resonated with her was I’m an Aspie girl. She recognised herself in it. We talk a lot about regulating and different strategies she can use. We are very definite with her that being cross and upset is fine but hurting and being rude is not. Her self esteem is rock bottom. So we try and big that up at every opportunity. It is a slow process and will take time.

Sounds normal if child is masking all day and then explodes at home

She sounds very like my child at that age, who is autistic but was undiagnosed at the time.

A diagnosis will provide clarity it isn't a magic wand solution, what will help is changing how you view and treat the behaviour.

I could not advocate enough for the book "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Please, please read it. It's filled with case studies of children like our children, and provides clear and useful advice in supporting them.

Behaviour is communication, especially in young children. She is telling you school is too much. What specifically does she struggle with in school?

Are big rooms full of people and assemblies overwhelming, is she anxious about a teacher asking her a question she doesn't know the answer to, is there a specific child or group of children picking on her? They are just some ideas, but i would be asking open questions to see what you can understand.

Our school has been fantastic in adapting to remove or reduce the overwhelm for our child. Often it's little changes (a written promise that they won't be asked to answer a question unless they have their hand up, some low sensory time with the SENCo, reduced homework) that make a big difference in taking down anxiety levels.

What's home life like after school? Is it very busy with after school clubs and people rushing here there and everywhere? What does she enjoy doing? Is there something she could do to regulate when she comes home? Or maybe just having some low demand free time is what she needs (like ours) rather than more pressure to "do".

It's all a bit trial and error, but our family today looks do different and life is so much better since we changed our view of our child to align with one who is significantly struggling and who needs support.

It's in the same wheelhouse, look at the article.

Stop thinking of yourself and think of your daughter. Show her love and try to work out the stressors in her life. Learn to understand her and help her. This will teach your other daughters compassion.