Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

Keep a diary. Email the school and local support centres. Keep GP informed, they can get Occupational Therapy for you 🤞🏻
Make sure you leave a paper trail. Always email, phone calls aren’t great for evidence.

Try go to support groups too, if u get time.

Good luck.
Let us know how you get on 🫶🏼

It’s not strange. It’s called masking - she knows she has to behave at school so takes it all out on her family when she gets home.
OP, I think you need to seek help privately at this point.

can you try homeschooling?

Agreed. I had cases of this when I worked in secondary schools - not as extreme as the situation that the OP is in, however.

I'm sorry you went through that. But can you see that OP 's child is destroying her siblings' lives? They're absolutely terrified of her.

What would you advise OP to do?

It might be worth a further conversation with your daughter's teachers. I suspect that they may well be seeing some symptoms in school but just failing to join the dots. For instance, does she struggle with non-literal language, such as jokes, sarcasm and metaphors? Is she easily distracted by the slightest noise, or does she show any distress at loud noises? How easily does she make friends? Is she very rule bound? How does she deal with transitions and sudden changes in routine?

Boarding school?!

Ride the wave. 8 is a very hard age.

Try to work out the triggers lower the demands.
Email the senco, email the teacher everything has to be emailed. This is your evidence.

Try and divide and conquer the siblings with husband and yourself (yes not ideal but everyone can have a better life like that) separate dinner times / weekend plans etc. she might need home time to gain energy.

Triggered by a particular sibling? Try to separate.

Newborn hope on Facebook (I can’t remember the founder but she understands it) she is very knowledgeable.

pda - fisher has webinars and also books out.

Ideally you would want an EHCP you can always apply for one yourself on the Ipsea website.

Missing the mark on insta and atpieceparents on insta (she is amazing that lady makes a lot of sense)

Which county you in? As unfortunately it’s a postcode lottery regarding support.

Make a therapist apt for you to vent? (I’ve done that which helped slightly). Or any grandparents that can help? Or does your child just need to chill in her bedroom with no demands and watch tv etc.

Even if your get the diagnosis if you do that’s a nice ticket. However the issue is school isn’t meeting the needs of your child and that’s why she is reacting that way. They have to either put in massive adjustments or ultimately if she is pda likely she wont be at school for a long time …..

8 is hard when ND. Keep going and your child is struggling so hard too.

Your doing well mummy keep going - ride the wave - tomorrow is a new day

There are a lot of things you can try which may help OP

I’m not suggesting any of these are a magic solution but even if they dial her outbursts down 25% it’s better. Different things work for different kids so see what seems to help.

Sleep - how is her sleep? ND children often sleep badly, melatonin can help many

Supplements - omegas and a general multivitamin. Probiotics especially if she had heavy duty antibiotics at birth. How is her eating?

Reduce demands. If you know she gets wound up easily after school then back off as much as you can. For example only ask her to do one thing at a time. Let small stuff go so she doesn’t get overwhelmed.

Give a snack right away after school, and don’t talk too much. Walk home from school if possible, this helps a lot with regulation.

Is a reduced schedule at school possible? Missing Weds or Friday afternoons for example? Just to allow some reset time.

Talk with her about what she finds hard at school - too noisy? Playground time? There may be solutions, the more you can help her with her school experience the better she will be at home.

Would a fidget toy help as an alternative to stimming ? Lots of kids have these at school now so maybe she wouldn’t feel embarrassed? Or is there a kind of stim you can find together that won’t embarrass her?

She doesn’t want to be like this. She just can’t cope and is lashing out.

Eventbrite is fab

This is incredibly common. Mask all day. Explode at home where it is safe.

Sounds like classic autism meltdown’s, following a day of masking at school. It’s all too much and they explode once they get home to a safe space. Has she said what she thinks about school and whether she has challenges. The violence is another level by the sounds of it and it’s really difficult for you. If it’s any consolation I’ve read that they can’t remember what they have said or done after a meltdown. It’s really not personal but overwhelm. I get it doesn’t feel like it at the time!
If you have the money I would get a private diagnosis and find a suitable child psychologist.

OP, if you haven't already, please go back and look at the post from the Ed Psych on your thread. Everything must seem a blur right now, all this advice and often conflicting opinions and suggestions.

My situation is not really like yours - we have the known quantity of a diagnosis as my younger son was diagnosed with ASD aged not quite 3 (and has a diagnosis of LDs too. I also suspect ADHD) but at 15 he's rather suddenly become quite threatening, and very very hard to live with at times. We've not had destructive behaviours yet, but he's started attacking me whenever he gets frustrated and he doesn't hold back. It's lucky he's slight, short and not heavy, but he's very strong. I'm starting to worry that he'll really hurt someone. This thread has made me consider PDA too, as he partially fits that profile.

Anyway, this is not to take anything from your horrendous experience. In my darker moments I also think 'there has to be somewhere he can go'. but I don't think there is. What you desperately need is an urgent assessment and diagnosis - I don't doubt for a minute that your DD has a neurodiverse (much though I hate that term) condition. I feel compassion for her and really hope she gets some help and appropriate therapy, but sorrow and fear for you, because I know a little of what you're currently undergoing.

Sorry to hear you’re feeling so desperate.

You can self-refer to social services. They won’t take your other children away, and they’re very unlikely to take her away. What is more likely is that it will trigger some help and some signposting to resources for you. Be that parenting classes (not that you’re doing a bad job, it’s just advanced and specific techniques that she needs) or other agencies with expertise in helping children like your daughter. Increasingly, help is “needs based not diagnosis based”. So hopefully the fact you don’t have a diagnosis yet won’t count against you. Do you want to say what rough area you’re in and people may be able to suggest things local to you.

Also, have got sought a CAMHS referral, if you’re recognising anxiety as part of it? She may not reach their threshold, but even if rejecting again they may signpost you to useful other ways of getting help.

i wish you the very best. Could you and husband take turns in having 1:1 time with her ? Would likely benefit her, your other kids, and give you some breaks too.

She’s burned out from masking and needs a break maybe? Have you tried Low Demand Parenting (Google or read book by Amanda Diekman), read or listen to The Explosive Child (Ross Greene). Join Yvonne Newbold’s Facebook group for parents of violent children (I think it’s called Newbold Hope). And pay for a diagnosis on a zero percent credit card. I’d go with a PDA expert as some may not be PDA aware. If it is PDA, it’s a panic nervous system response to a perceived loss of autonomy, and the best person to explain it is Casey Erich - At Peace Parents. She’s amazing, so clear. Listen to the podcasts or watch her social media, and things will start to click. Also - the good news - if the low demand parenting works, she will improve and improve - so many parents on the PDA groups I’m on agree that kids get better and better as they get older and have more control over their own lives. It’s the loss of control that sends them into panic. Use declarative language. Give her an iPad or TV and let her relax in her room. Explain to your other kids that she is most likely ND so needs different rules. Let her eat in her room. Don’t make her do anything. Let school know you suspect PDA and they are to lower demands. Remove all demands at home. And get a diagnosis so she can get the treatment she deserves. There’s a frightened little girl in there, and you can give her the key to finding herself. Wishing you luck. My daughter is10 and we have come such a long way. It’s a nervous system disability, she’s in constant fight or flight, and needs to feel safe. Giving her up now will do the opposite. Can you try low demand parenting for a few weeks to see if it helps.

Bring her to a child therapist.
She may be the victim of trauma and be acting out.
You're her mother.
You need to help her not give her away.

Could you OP keep her phone handy at all times to film the tantrums and abuse? Then when the School shrugs their shoulders there is some proof of the behaviour. Something has to be done - the child will only grow bigger and stronger.

Get your other kids referred to your local young carer support. It will provide them with support and somewhere to be kids without stress

Was she already behaving like this when you had your 3rd DC?

I think you need to take away the possibility of giving up on her and guilt about the other 2, it’s just creating more conflict in your mind.

Your DD needs the parenting support she needs, it would be the same if she had a physical disability, she needs more and different from you than the others do.

If she is masking all day at school she likely needs to be in a low stimulation, low demand environment afterwards to recover and regulate.

It does sound really challenging, especially if the violent outbursts, pending professional support can you research into autism and autistic meltdowns and how to best handle them?

Are there any local support networks you can join?

Local or school based psychological support or even family therapy you can look into?

She probably means group b streptococcus infection - commonest cause of neonatal sepsis/meningitis

I've seen this too and it was due to the mother assaulting one but not all of her children. All children are not treated the same by the same parents.
Parents, particularly mothers can take a strong dislike to one of their own children from birth.

I’m so sorry @pinkstargaze . I haven’t read all the replies so don’t know if anyone else has suggested this could be the issue - www.google.com/search?q=pans+pandas+uk&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

You mentioning she had a strep infection when she was born opens up a whole new world. Strep infections can trigger in some people an autoimmune reaction which inflame their brain it’s called pandas. Ask your gp to do both a strep swab culture from her throat and a blood test to test for strep antibodies.

this would link with pans/pandas if strep
https://www.google.com/search?q=pans+pandas+uk&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

My sister youngest has been diagnosed with this and it’s horrific. They too are extremely violet and yet has no control over their behaviour though there are times they manage to mask whilst at school for example. Sadly these conditions are not yet recognised on the NHS in the UK (it is recognised in courntries such as a Poland and USA) but there are specialists in this country. My sister has had to go private. Please look on Facebook for the pans/pandas group x I’m so sorry. My sister goes through hell and I so feel for you