Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

Hi. I have a daughter with PDA. She masked like crazy at school and no one there was remotely interested - she is adopted and we got help through other routes and school had to accept her diagnosis in the end.

But left to them, nothing would have happened.

Can you afford to go private for a diagnosis?

In the meantime, join the Facebook PDA groups and find out how to parent a PDA child. It makes a huge difference.

@jellyfish798 @Wonderingaboutthing @AnonSugar

moral high horse? when your child is incredibly difficult and having a detrimental impact on the the rest of your family, the only solution is to relegate them to the care system, because they are a monster, a monster, your child!

@AnonSugar "Nobody asked you if you would ever give up your child EVER." but didn't @pink specifically ask "can we"?

I only answered from my perspective, ofc, it is anathema, to me, that the only resolution for my child is to entrust their care to the state!!!

I'm sorry but if it's situational then it's more than likely to be behavioural rather than a sen issue.
A child this bad at home won't be able to mask for a full day at school. And I say this as someone who works with neurodiverse people and is also neurodiverse myself with neurodiverse children.
She can probably sense that she's the black sheep of the family and isn't loved as much as her siblings.

Here is the screenshot of it. You can sign up for free. Plenty of ideas. It’s very helpful.

I wonder if there is medication for children who are this badly dysregulated to help them calm down a bit.

It sounds incredibly hard @pinkstargaze.

Have you considered filming her behaviour at home, so that you can show school/GP/social care what you’re dealing with? That might help you build some evidence to get more support. If you wouldn’t be able to use your phone to do it, you can get Blink cameras for about £30 on Amazon that can just sit on a shelf. It might help you build the picture and get the right people listening.

@Prancingpickle
My DD hid it at school. Albeit her list is long. She definitely has SEN. Teachers have so many in the class, girls especially can be missed. It’s a known issue. Anxiety often causes behaviours to be curbed during school.

I sympathise op I really do cos I have a 8 yr old with Sen who presents pretty much the same only shes in a Sen school.
BUT she's not a pet you can re-home ,,undernea5ot all she's a frightened little child who needs love and understanding you can't just give her away .
She is a s deserving of your love and compassion as your other 2 .
You all clearly need some support esp the little one with autism /ADHD services .
Their are lots of courses you and your partner can do from LA where you can learn some coping strategies and maybe learn to understand her triggers .
Try to get involved with the loacal SEN community who will be invaluable with advice and just a listening ear ,,you will find so many are going through the same as you and you will not feel as alone .
The way you talk about her is really upsetting ,,despite her negative behaviours she needs and is deserving of your love and care .

That particular article is very pertinent to the OP

OP I’m sorry, parented an ASN child with lots of issues. Been there with the kicking, meltdowns, verbal tirades and much more. No one can or should be doing all they can to love her more than you and DH. Know it’s hard but how do you think a stranger will manage better? Sounds like you don’t like let alone care than much about her. Go to parenting classes, get in help but to have this idealised view of if only she wasn’t there all would be great is low. Imho. Your two angels may well go off the rails yet. My own now in 20s and doing great.

Cameras in house for evidence ? She needs help, you all do, this must be so very difficult x

Hi this does sound PDA like - I've not read all the thread (apologies) but the PDA website is helpful. My child has a rare syndrome with learning difficulties and associated PDA presentation. It's incredibly difficult to manage. I referred myself to children's social care for an assessment - she can be amazing but also dangerous and is aggressive on a daily basis despite very careful parenting. It's not been easy but we now have a package of support in place. I have had to fight for this.
The impact on us all, our marriage and my other child has been significant. I am burnt out. Do all you can as soon as you can to get support. It may be worth getting on touch with Contact for support. Wishing you well.

I disagree. I suspect my son is extremely intelligent and this is helping him mask all day at school. It is not behavioural - none of the standard consequences make a blind bit of difference. For reference, I have another child who is NOT like this.

I can really recommend ‘Parents of autistic girls UK’ Facebook group, helpful, knowledgeable and kind people on there.
Sending love 💚

I was going to suggest the Right To Choose pathway. Definitely worth pursuing with the GP.

Hi OP,

Just want to reiterate my post as there’s been a lot of posts since and it may get lost. There are lots of ideas already on here, some are sensible and some aren’t so much.

Ultimately you won’t know what is going on until you meet with the right professionals and get the right support. Where I am based that would be me (CAMHS) alongside social care with us inputting into education. Just go to the GP and tell them what is happening, or call social care and tell them you need help. For where I am you would be seen straight away an we would expedite and complete the ND assessment as part of a wider assessment to determine what is going on and what exactly is going to help your family. This is very fixable, there is so much to feel hopeful about even though I understand how hard it is when it is happening,

To add, she is that bad at home BECAUSE she masks all day at school. No school = fewer outbursts, as per OP's posts.

That is 100% not true. My daughter has PDA. Many children with PDA have behaviour issues - there is however a sub group who have found that the best way to avoid demands is to keep their heads down and be "good". Teachers then tend to leave them alone. They aren't causing anyone any trouble.

They spend so much time on this masking, it all comes out when they get home.

Best advice I heard was to start treating your child as though they ‘have’ whatever it is you’re getting them assessed for. So I’d get online and look at coping tactics for PDA kids and start really following them.

You said she’s like a toddler or like she’s never grown up, can you treat her like that if that’s what she’s calling for? Can you switch rooms around and let her sleep in bed with you? Can you have one on one time with her for a week and have your husband take your other kids into another room after school?

Also you say you know school is the trigger, then she needs to not be in school. Even if it is just a different school. She likely needs to HEAR you agree with her - hear you agree with her point of view that school sucks. Because it is horrible being forced to go somewhere and having everyone tell you it is for your own good when you hate it- it makes you not trust adults around you because they’re subjecting you to a horrid time. And she probably gets picked at if she different to the other kids.

Have you read the explosive child yet? It’s probably been suggested and I’ve missed it. Whenever you can, until things are calm do lots of divide and conquer parenting. Give the other two a break with one parent then switch- and try to do things each kid likes. How does 8yo do with swimming or hiking? Maybe art? Maybe just chilling. Give as much attention as wanted and try to say lots of compliments.

I’d also look at low demand parenting and find the areas where you can apply it - when my eldest is going through a rough time I try to do that as much as I can, especially areas like food. Way more important to be calm than to eat at proper meal times no elbows…

Once 8yo is calm, you can talk through hypotheticals and work on one kind of situation at a time to improve behaviour on all sides. When you know what they need you can provide it so they can feel safe starting to discuss the rest. (We spent Sept-Dec focusing on walking to school properly. Learned to make some clothing adjustments, talk through weather and some key spots to stop, he learned to walk the bleep to school)

hope you get proper help and support soon

Just bumping ClinPsyc12345s great post ,you all need help and sometimes it needs a big bang to get the wheels of the system moving.

This sounds very similar to a TikTok I saw today - was that you? If so, no advice. But sympathies it looked horrific.

Thats really not how these waiting lists work. There are messages on the phones of the body in our area providing assessments for asd saying, if you are on the waiting list for asd assessment, we cannot help you with a date etc.
Im not joking!!
There may be differences in different geographical areas. I got to know about kids with these types of behavioural problems due to my colleague's son who she suspected had adhd. He is now 11 and she had put in for an assessment when he was 6!! She got him diagnosed privately almost two yrs ago, managed to get him on adhd medication which has greatly helped him to focus at school. He was also very violent and would pick up whatever was to hand and throw it if angry. She had to lock up all knives for example... This was not a parenting problem: she has an older daughter without any of these problems.

Edited to add re geographical differences in provision and to give example

Have you thought of separating her from her siblings for periods of time? Are there grandparents or aunts and uncles around that could help? I’m thinking of maybe asking someone else to have your other two for some weekends so you and DH can spend time with your DD on her own. As a grandmother myself I’d be willing to have the “awkward” child but not many grandparents have the experience with problem children that I have so it would be unfair to ask. Alternatively you and DH could take it in turns to have your DH on her own. I know it’s tough. You have my sympathy even if my advice isn’t practicable.

It sounds like things are tough for all of you. Sending hugs. Is your daughter the same in the school holidays? As a mum is 2 ND nearly adults, this definitely sounds like disregulation. How does your dc do academically and socially at school? I would speak to the school and be very honest about the situation as they may be able to offer some help such as ELSA. They might also be able to put strategies in place so your dc is not as disregulated whem they get home. If you strongly suspect some sort of nd then see if you can go on some parenting training to give you strategies to use at home. Speak to your local carers centre to get support for you and your children too.