Can we give up one of our children?

[pinkstargaze]

I don’t know where else to turn, this is about my 8 year old.
We have 3 Children the eldest and youngest are lovely but the middle child is making life so hard with her violence towards us.

She comes home from school and shouts and screams and hits me and her siblings, she calls me names, swears at me and won’t listen to a word I say just says shut up and covers her ears if I speak to her.
Her siblings are frightened of her, I’m frightened of her I know as soon as I say anything I will be hurt, she hits me in the back and it takes my breath away, she kicks me and tells me to kill myself, slams doors throws things, screams at the top of her voice by which time the other children are crying and I just can’t do this anymore.

I don’t want this for my other children who are so well behaved, we don’t swear or raise voices, we are just a nice family who all get along and respect each other apart from her, she makes everyone miserable, destroys our home and everyone’s belongings.
It is embarrassing, friends won’t have her around their children and even our own family don’t want her near her cousins because it always ends in tears.
I don’t want to live in a home where I’m scared to tell my child off because she’ll hit me, I don’t want to share my home with someone who laughs and points at me with delight when anything goes wrong, or revels in her siblings misfortune and I don’t want to be called names and be sworn at in my own home or have my things ruined by someone who doesn’t care about me or my things.
I don’t want this to be my life and I definitely don’t want it for her siblings.
I feel strongly that for sake of the family’s safety she needs to go into care but I don’t want to lose all my children.
Is it even a thing to put one child into foster care and not the others?

She is waiting to be assessed but the waiting time is long, the school doesn’t see this as she’s masking all day until she gets home but it’s every day.
I have a lovely family, a lovely husband and we have 2 other children who are lovely but she is making our lives hell and our home uncomfortable and I know I just don’t have what it takes to live with her, I am burnt out and feel so guilty to the other children.
Dh does his best when he’s home but we are all so worn down and miserable, we just can’t carry on like this.
It has broken us both and the others are suffering. I genuinely can’t do this but I so love being a mum to the others who I carry on for.

I didn’t say it was easy or a silver bullet, but it is possible and OP should not be put off because the school isn’t supportive or some say she won’t get an EHCP.

I have seen it done, many times. I have done it myself for others too many times. The school not being supportive really doesn’t have to be a huge barrier. The thresholds can still be met.

The EHCP process does not have to be costly for the OP. Even if she needs independent assessments, there are ways of securing those if parents can’t afford them.

OP doesn’t need to know exactly what provision an EHCP should include. That is where comprehensive assessment by EP, OT (including sensory OT), SALT and CP comes in. Having said that, an EHCP can cover ongoing OT, SALT and mental health provision, and it is clear from OP’s posts all 3 are required. It can also open doors to a more appropriate setting.

@Nearly50omg the NHS waiting list for assessment in some parts of the country is 2-3 years plus, so it’s not surprising that she hasn’t been assessed yet. My wait with my son was about 3 years and I’ve been warned it could be longer for my daughter. Not everyone can afford private assessment

Oh @pinkstargazei get it, I really do. Also parent to a dd8 with this behaviour. It's hard. It's really, really hard. There have been many occasions where I have ended up a weeping heap on the floor and considered leaving the country and moving to outer Mongolia.

It's ok.

Unfortunately you have to pressurise every available avenue in order to get help, or even just clarification that you're not insane and that this behaviours is not the norm.

Be honest with school - in fact don't just be honest with school, spell it out to them what is happening. The first five times it may not get through but it will eventually. Email your concerns. This way you have evidence and can back up what you're saying. For example "did something happen at school today? DD came home very dysregulated and this lead to a 1 hour meltdown"

Be clear and concise. Whilst school don't see it you need to ram the point home it is happening, it is real and it isn't just an upset child. What you have described is called after school restraint collapse. Ask for a meeting with the senco and be brutally honest regarding what you are experiencing - I know it's hard but don't be embarrassed - you need to be brutally honest for your dd's sake.

Ask if you can get a referral to early help at the meeting - they can't do a lot but they can see your child in your home and open doors for further support for you.

Also read as much as you can about ASD/ADHD/PDA - follow the pages on social media, do whatever course you're offered - take it all. I have found that realising we are not alone has helped change my mindset towards handling DD.

Apologies for the assumption but it reads like your DD is neuro diverse - in your head, with lots of practice try to reframe the behaviours as symptoms of that and symptoms of an overwhelmed nervous system in fight or flight. You aren't parenting bad behaviour, it's not your fault - it's a nervous system in distress and fight or flight mode.

If it helps you, my DD is the same. I have been through years of fighting for my DD whilst she continuously unravels - she is 8 in y4. I have had to fight tooth and nail every step of the way. She is (was) masking heavily at school and they didn't believe me that she wasn't just ADHD - as time has progressed she has found it harder and harder to mask at school and they are now seeing snippets of what we see.

I had dd put on the right to choose pathway 1 year ago at the same time as she received her ADHD diagnosis and was put on the ASD pathway too. We had the assessment a month ago and now have the "official diagnosis" - Audhd with demand avoidance.

Op, you will come through this, it will improve. Happy to receive DM'S If you would like to message me - even if it's just to let of steam (today my DD spent 1 hour trying to snap mine and her dad's fingers amongst other things!)

Who has mentioned adoption?? Not one person on this thread has discussed adoption as an option least of all OP. The discussion is about her going into care, not being adopted.

No advice but I really feel for you, this sounds incredibly hard, upsetting and draining x

When has she had this behaviour since, op?

Have you looked into Pans/pandas at all?

I have experienced it myself, I have COPD and the constant stress of my DD's behaviour / support needs led to frequent chest infections led to a week in hospital, so I do get it. I had 8 chest infections during her worst year, it's been 2 years now and I've had maybe 4.

that's why I asked what she was doing whilst waiting for an assessment. When my daughter was getting assessed cahms told me id been really proactive in seeking her the support and that usually they'd send parents off to do A,B,C first then they'd consider an assessment, but as I'd already done that they'd just do the assessment

I've seen my own friends wait for an assessment thinking it will change everything, it won't. The child's needs are still the same with or without an assessment and diagnosis and it would be much better for everyone if OP started learning new ways now

A quick Google offers so much support, libraries offer free books ect, there's lots of free SEN places that don't need a diagnosis to offer support, lots of free information online

Very personal question but, how much money have you got to throw at this OP? Because there is a whole litany of things you could source privately which would likely help, but I’d put them into a specific order if (like most of us) you don’t have thousands of pounds to spare.

Literally the funniest thing I’ve read all week.

Surely she meant Group B Strep.

Look up masking and then try again.

PANS is a really good suggestion if the onset of the symptoms has been sudden

The Family Court has changed op and now the emphasis is keeping families together so if you ask for a SW they won’t take your DC away, they should support you.

I’ve not RTFullT but I see that someone has suggested PDA. The PDA Society has some useful strategies here.

You might also find 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child helpful too. I think you’ve realised that if she is ND then strategies used to guide NT DC don’t generally work

Does she have an ECHP yet too? They are based on need rather than diagnosis so you can ask for an EHC assessment now.

Can I ask how she scores on this simple progress checker too? It might be that she needs some help with communication

Oh my Op, i so feel for all of you. There is no easy way forward but i think you need to film everything without her knowing, internal cctv. If you really do think that for the safety, wellbeing and MH of your other two children that it is best for your daughter to go into care then you really must contact SS and your GP and tell them you are seriously considering this step. I am sure SS will drag their heels but just maybe they can help find some short term residential care. I hope you all get the help you need💐

Indeed. My DD1 used to explode as soon as I picked her up from school, she used to lash out on the way home! She masked throughout the day at school, so they just didn’t witness the behaviour at all.

Yeah, tell me you haven’t got a ND DC without saying it.

If only it was that fucking simple.

I was lucky in that situation but it's bitter sweet as it took years for it to get to the point SS got involved and by that point I felt like I didn't want to be here anymore. So very lucky but it was a very tough battle

It must be area dependent / situation dependent as social services really really helped me and our lives have dramatically improved since their support. I actually get emotional when I think about how nice they were to me 😅

Does she have autism? My Dd does this

No, it reads as though she is at the end of her tether and maybe doesn't have the social/ emotional/ financial/ practical skills and knowledge/ awareness to fully explore all avenues for help.

My heart goes out to you all, my youngest DD is 8, diagnosed autistic and with a PDA profile I’m sure. When dysregulated and at her limit from masking, her behaviour is the same as your DD. “Normal” parenting doesn’t work and it’s so hard for the siblings to witness, as well as be affected. I had to shout from the rooftops to get “help”, we had a referral from school to Early Years who assigned me a case worker and was so helpful in signposting me to charities and advisories. I was able to access free online guidance which has massively helped in my approach to parenting her. I also learned how to keep myself regulated because it is bloody exhausting and relentless and I can absolutely understand how desperate you are.
I also filmed some of the meltdowns to share if I needed to, and took photos of my injuries. It’s still hard on some days and I understand that puberty in girls at this age has a particular effect and exacerbates the situation.
I can’t promise it will get better but your ability to cope can improve, and at the heart of this is likely a little girl who constantly feels in fight or flight, and absolutely wouldn’t choose to behave this way. Sending hugs

I'm so pleased to hear this! We do our best, we really do. The system is shockingly bad.

Are situation isn’t quite as hard as yours but I do get it and how hard it is. We are trying non violent resistance parenting course/counselling privately (NVR)- take a look. It’s used by CAMHS. We have a normal household, work in related fields and another child without these struggles but needed help as nothing was working to make the house calm,
edit: mine is also beautifully behaved at school and on an ASD waitlist but knowing the services I don’t think diagnosis is the priority for us, more skills to help everyone be happier.

No good advice from, just empathy.

I know someone with a similar child. Its got worse as she has reached teenage years. She actually pushed my friend down the stairs and broke her arm. It has progressed to gaslighting, hiding my friends purse/keys but denying it...its awful. She has another 2 children who are delightful, but this one is off the rails and has been for years. All attempts at psychiatric help have failed. She is broken with it :(

I’m so sorry for you. My sibling started at age 8 MH.
It sounds really severe. Some people say video the behaviour- very good idea. Yes it is often the case to mask at school. Then school don’t write any evidence then you can get the help it seems. For my DD we ended up paying private for the ND assessment because we gave up waiting - it has helped. I get ADDitude magazine from USA on emails. They seem more clued up on SEN I’ll show you what I found… in next post…
Once there’s been an assessment then they can look at treatment or meds. I feel really sad for you. I’d be wanting a look at foster care so it’s temporary- but know nothing about this.

Sorry you are going through this.

Waiting lists that are years-long are an utter disgrace, aren't they.

PDA ? and no.... do not abandon her...