Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

I’m in my 40s now but this was a problem when I was at school and school banned all skirts. We all wore trousers which worked well.

Hmm, it’s a difficult one. I agree that girls being unable to wear socks due to men and boys’ reactions is not acceptable, the school haven’t handled this well. But I agree that underwear visible isn’t acceptable either. How would you prefer they had handled it op?

I'd feel pretty uncomfortable if the boys underwear was visible so from that viewpoint I don't think it's unreasonable to seek a solution. Banning socks is daft.

That’s interesting as I was at school in the 70s (state comp) and no one rolled up their skirts

I don't think short skirts were the fashion then. I started at a mixed state comp in 1977. I was a young looking 11 and the uniform rules were not that strict - we had to wear a navy blue skirt, but no particular style was specified. I already had a navy blue corduroy skirt and my mum decided that would do until I grew out of it. It was very slightly above the knee - today's skirt-rollers would consider it frumpily long, but I was constantly asked (by older girls, not teachers) why I was wearing a "mini," with the clear implication that it was out of date and unacceptable to the self-imposed fashion police. I wouldn't describe it as bullying although it's possible some people would nowadays, they just seemed very keen to convince me to change to the midi-length skirts everybody else was wearing. When I eventually cracked and got one more like theirs, I flew under the radar.

For what it's worth, in the situation described by the OP, I think the school should either insist that everybody should wear trousers or actually police its skirt length rules. Insisting on tights is the worst of all worlds, and not only because some people don't like wearing them. Tights ladder easily, especially if you're an active child or teenager. Parents who can't afford to keep replacing them are going to be in a difficult position. Leggings would be a better alternative but why wear skirts over leggings, especially when it's hot, when you could just wear skirts that aren't short enough to be controversial?

But why a blanket ban because of a few? Surely just punish the few? I also see girls locally wearing what is basically a belt so I do appreciate the issue.

In a secondary school its not just a few though, its quite a lot. Policing them individually takes so much of the teachers time away from doing school work. It also becomes a game for some girls to see how much they can get away with.

They should then be sent home.

This

It's the reason my headteacher exH would never have considered working in a secondary school ... one such comment from a silly girl with a bunch of even sillier friends jumping on the bandwagon of excitement and that's a whole career potentially gone

Like others I don't want to see anyone's underwear, and especially not the micro thongs some of the local girls have taken to wearing to up the effect.
i'd say ask them all to wear trousers, but then you'll get some in bum-scrunch or sheer ones and don't even think of asking some parents to provide more appropriate clothing

I'm in Scotland, where state schools have dress code / uniform, but uniform isn't enforceable

Kids generally wear white shirt, school tie, black jeans / school trousers / leggings, dark jacket. Of course, plenty do wear short skirts, but mostly leggings or black jeans

At school.in the 70s yes girl rolled their skirts shorter, until very long skirts came into fashion. Then everyone was trying to make their skrt look longer. Anyone in high school 1974/75 ish will remember this 😁
However, if a girl came into school with a skirt up to her buttocks would have been labelled a slag, by both boys and girls

And the girls will, for 5 minutes. Then they will roll it up again. How much spare time do people think teachers have? It was the same when I was at school, girls told to roll their skirts down, next lesson it would be short again (not quite as short as they seem to now though). Teacher don't have the time to police what the girls are wearing every lesson.
Trousers or tights should be worn. If they don't like trousers or tights it's not the school's problem (and I say that as a parent of a child with sensory issues but we worked with the school. Something parents don't want to do anymore).

Look at it from the male staff members situation, they already walk on egg shells, why the hell should they have to go to work everyday and be faced with a view of teenage girls knickers? No female teacher would be expected to work looking at boys arse cheeks.

Maybe because I have ASD and can be apparently particularly petty when it comes to rules that don’t make sense and are blatantly discriminatory

What exactly does the rules state.
That socks are only allowed to be worn by boys
Or girls must wear thick tights. Socks not allowed

What would happen if a girl turns up in trousers would she still not be allowed to wear socks because of her sex

Could the parents of the girls inform the school that their DD’s now identify as boys and now have the name Bill/Pete/Steve/Bryan etc and turn up in their school skirt and knee high socks

If you make stupid rules expect many many questions from a parent like me

The girls know what they're doing, and why they're doing it. Yet boys and male teachers are getting the blame on so many of the posts on this thread.

The girls are also on a power trip. They know that male teachers are going to be reluctant to address them individually about the length of their skirt. And the suggestion from a pp that the male teacher should just find a female teacher to tell them off is farcical. Women teachers aren't just wandering the school with nothing else to do but be called to a classroom to tell a girl to roll down their skirt.

made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them
I wouldn't want to see people's underwear on show. How ridiculous that some girls are doing this. (Not your dd)

Can I just say as well to those saying they roll them up, THERE IS NO WAY A CHILD CAN ROLL UP A KNEE LENGTH SKIRT TO THE POINT OF SHOWING THEIR KNICKERS. They would look like they had a tyre around their waist. Parents need to buy the right length to begin with.

Why is that not the policy instead of policing the undergarments of teenage girls?

Surely it's the opposite, though: their undergarments should be neither here nor there - wear whatever you like - because they are undergarments and thus should not be visible!

In the case of tights, it isn't so much policing undergarments as having to tell the pupils to actually wear undergarments in the first place, so that nobody can see your privates. These are teenagers too; not tiny little kids who have yet to learn that some parts of your body are private!

Tell them that allegedly (bit of an urban myth I think) in the US prison system this signalled their sexual availability. That might get them to pull them up a bit quicker 😂

I can see why some schools are starting to ban skirts and have trousers for both sexes as the uniform to avoid all this nonsense

True.

At my kids school they also had embroidery on the front of the waistband which had to be visible at all times. And they did check!

Women and men need to adhere to dress code in certain settings, school is one of them. The rest is bollocks.

Exactly. If boys came in wearing skirts there would be an issue, and if male teachers wore Lycra cycling gear or tiny running shorts, or female teachers came in with tiny skirts or low cut tops we’d call it inappropriate. Why are we raising girls to have no sense of their own power? It’s not about making them responsible for the behaviour of others but for their OWN behaviour.

You need to push back en mass. All girls in the class need to wear socks. they cannot send them all home.

The majority are going to suffer because the school is too weak to punish the minority who cannot follow the rules.

The Deputy needs his hard drive checking.

Why? Do you suspect him of having lots of downloaded images of people who are properly dressed, with no private body parts visible?

It seems quite an odd pervert who is urging people to cover up more...

I think the school is right.

If the boys had their arses out on display, I would also want that resolved.

Kids at school should not be displaying their underwear. End of!

My DD is also of the opinion that skirts should be rolled up. We compromise with either thick tights, or black cycle shorts in summer. I do not want her bum or underwear on display - it is not acceptable. The majority of her friends seem to do a similar thing - which helps me to be honest. I have seen some sights outside the school gate though.

If the school clamped down I would support - I can only control the length of the skirt that I buy, and how she leaves the house. I am happy of the school continue the reinforcement while at school.

This was the same at my eldest’s school a few years ago. Boys were also not allowed to wear shorts as ‘hairy legs made the girls uncomfortable’.