Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

it has nothing to do with men/boys telling girls what they should wear and everything to do with no human being should be flashing their private parts or underwear in public, especially a school or workplace making people feel awkward, being told you should dress respectfully/appropriately is not an issue- making people feel uncomfortable because of your private areas being on show IS an issue.
edited to add- i understand your frustration OP but its aimed at the wrong people, i would be annoyed if daughter had to wear something uncomfortable but not because the school told her to but because of the few girls who wouldn’t follow uniform policy and ruined it for the other girls.

What. The. Heck. It has always been thus. Just pull aside the miscreants and give them detention or whatever. Blanket ban? Shouldn't be acceptable.

Two of my children are teachers. They regularly talk about the inappropriate clothing that some girls are wearing. How uncomfortable it is, because you can’t not see it. It’s not allowed to be mentioned for fear of causing offence but the girls don’t care how offensive it is to have to look at it.

You can't accept that no one (well maybe a pervert) wants to be looking at girls knickers particularly if they are so skimpy that they don't cover what they are supposed to.

Plenty of women have told you but your poor DD having to wear tights is so much more important.

Maybe change schools, find somewhere that doesn't care about girls being decently covered. Same goes for boys but I don't think they are often dressed in a way that means you can see the crotch if their underwear.

Seems a bit extreme to me. My DD goes to an all girls school, I would say at least 90% of them choose skirts (they can wear trousers if they wish) and yes they roll them up too.

Another girls school were fighting to be allowed to wear trousers as well as skirts, to be allowed the choice, and the rules were changed to allow trousers as well, only recently.

Problem is a new head takes over and the rules change again.

I’m a middle aged hetro woman and I’d be feeling uncomfortable if forced to see teenage girls knickers all day.

its not just men who feel uncomfy. It’s innappropriate to wear skirts as short as lots of them do.

It IS always girls and women who have to compromise.

A few girls in the school are breaking the rules and making boys feel uncomfortable and the answer, according to a large number of posts on this thread, is that every single girl in the school should be made to wear trousers regardless of their comfort or preferences. Even the ones like DD and her friends who always abide by the rules.

Heaven forbid poor boys have to endure any discomfort or embarrassment. The number of “my poor DS saw a flash of flesh and it traumatised him wahhh” responses are wild😅 I hate to break it some of the mums on here, but I don’t think a ‘trauma’ is the response from the average 13 year old boy if they glimpse a girls legs..

Eh? I didn’t mention whether or not anyone wants to look at girls knickers.

My response was to your frankly odd suggestion that if a boy is aroused it’s the fault of a girl!

In DD’s school prospectus , none of the girls are wearing the correct length skirt. Don’t get me wrong, they all look neat, tidy and perfectly put together, the length is a decent length, and visually it looks a lot better than the example on the school uniform website( which is ill fitting and drowning that child). I just find it highly ironic. Good enough to represent the school and be put in print , but against the school rules.

Plenty of us are raising boys and girls and can see both sides here. Not all boys are pervs or aroused or want to look or want to be disrespectful but these bum cheek skimming skirts are unnecessary. If the boys have to wear trousers all year without exception then i dont think tights are ridiculous for girls! You have decided you are right though.

No - I have read a lot of your posts and you appear to be the sort of mum that thinks girls in general can just act and wear exactly what they like and boys need to control uncomfortableness... they do ! The fact is they SHOULDNT HAVE TO. Do you ever see boys walking around with their backsides or balls nearly sticking out ?? If they did - would it make some girls uncomfortable? Hell yes ! It's unfortunate the whole school now has to pay for the actions of a few and your girls might abide nh the rules - but be angry at the few that can't abide by them not the poor boys who are probably doing everything within their control to not feel uncomfortable. No one should be made to feel uncomfortable - not boys and not girls (with what they see). Reevaluate your thinking - your views are exactly the sort of thing that damages both sexes . Girls rolling up skirts to show bums almost enjoying the uncomfortableness - how is that good ? Its no different to boys making gitls feel uncomfortable. . Ever heard of root cause ? You remove the root cause not the symptoms. The symptom is boys feeling uncomfortable looking as they know its wrong... the root cause ? The bloody clothes and bums on show ... ugh . And I say that as a mum of both a girl and a boy in early adulthood.
And dare I say it - speak to a girl that wouldn't do that and she'd have a healthy understanding of why it isn't a good idea and also respect herself and her peers. Speak so someone that does have their arse hanging out and you'll see the glint in the eye of "I dare them to look".

The girls should be following the dress code. The onus is on the girls to be dressing appropriately for school.

100% this. Its about both sides being respectful. I'd love to see the fallout if boys were allowed to wear shorts.... and some start to wear them so tight you see every bulge and then some 😂

I don’t know how your school is run but at DD’s, there is a quick uniform inspection in the morning. Teachers do not have to spend their time walking around the school checking uniforms.

Serial offenders are given a Detention and non-attendance at is taken very seriously. If a pupil doesn’t turn up they are given a longer one (first infraction is 30 mins at lunch, if that one is missed the pupil is automatically placed in a longer one after school.) I believe the next stage would be to contact the parents. However, again a teacher wouldn’t have to phone a parent “while teaching” as there are designated staff who deal with behavioural issues separately and they would e-mail/contact the parent.

If there was a widespread issue at DD’s school I could understand your point about teachers time being taken up dealing with uniform non compliance but the Deputy said himself that the culprits are a small number of girls. It is also a smaller than average school for our area. The idea that overworked teachers have to spend a disproportionate amount of time policing uniform rather than teaching is just not the case at DD’s school. Again, I can only speak for her school so of course it may be different for you.

I just think we need to dispel the idea that every single teacher, in every school is completely overwhelmed dealing with uniform related problems so let’s just put all girls in trousers/force them to wear tights etc

Yes I agree. But should every single girl be forced to change the way they dress and wear something uncomfortable because a small number of girls break the rules?

Or would it make more sense to just punish the girls breaking the rules?

Hi - I work in a school office and am one of the ‘dedicated’ members of staff who have to contact parents and guess what - we are overwhelmed. We have in the past year lost more funding so we have fewer members of staff and therefore have too much on our plate to deal with girls who are determined to show their bits. Our LA now expects to us to deal with absence or pupils who are out of school and we recently had a high profile case in our area of a child out of school murdered by her dad and step mum so excuse me if I’m going to prioritise welfare calls to make sure pupils are ok than calling someone about their daughters determination that everyone must see their ass cheeks in the name of feminism. Have a problem with it - talk to the parents who can’t parent.

Nope. I’m the kind of mum who thinks girls should respect the schools uniform policy which is why my DD always goes to school in the correct uniform.

Despite this, she is now being made to wear something she finds uncomfortable because a few girls in the school dress inappropriately (as confirmed by the school, it’s a few girls).

So the Deputy has made it clear that since a few girls make boys feel uncomfortable, every girl is banned from wearing socks with their skirts.

Does that make sense or seem fair to you?

This is the point I’ve made throughout and I have no idea how you have arrived at the idea that I think it’s acceptable for girls to walk around with their bums on show etc.

The 2nd option of course. You should press the school on this. But unfortunately some will always ruin it fir others... however its not the boys at fault here - it's the small minority of girls

Then I apologise and I agree wholeheartedly with you. I came to that conclusion earlier seeing posts about "the poor boys " not able to control themselves
I also think that girls should hold themselves and each other accountable - the ones following the rules should have a word with the ones ruining it... but I'll be in minority there

Boys have to wear trousers so I can't see an issue with girls wearing trousers so if that isn't an option ask the school to adopt that.

I'm sorry as the mother of sons I can't get upset about girls who find trousers uncomfortable or hot as it's just the same for boys.

You get very hung up on bits you pick out. Female teachers have clearly told you they don't want to see girls backsides or the crotch of their knickers, plenty of other women agree but no you have to focus on something the DH said when the original message was different.

Maybe support the school and stop fussing about your DD being hot.

Are you volunteering to go in and supervise the detentions or are you expecting teachers to do it on top of all the other things they need to do?

I completely understand you are overwhelmed but I don’t think it’s the case in DD’s school.

The Deputy said a small number of repeat offenders are responsible for these uniform infractions. Why would it therefore take dedicated staff a huge amount of time to deal with this in a smaller than average school like DD’s? This is a genuine question from someone who has never taught in a school.

The school’s policy is first time - a warning; second offence - detention; third time - suspension. I’m trying to work out why a dedicated set of staff members would feed ‘overwhelmed’ if they had to enforce this for a few girls every now and then.

I have not once blamed boys for this situation.

I have placed responsibility on the Deputy for his poor language and punishing 99% of girls because of the behaviour of 1% of girls instead of dealing with that 1%.

honestly, it’s the parents. First you have to contact them, then they complain, they shout, verbally abuse you. Recently had a similar complaint - wasn’t to do with skirts but similar - end up with a FOI request which required 2 days of redacting emails. this kind of stuff is exahausting…. For the sake of sake of your staffs mental health or your daughter wearing tights.

but I guess your daughters school is the only one where the office staff are twiddling their fucking thumbs