Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

Also this - when I forgot my PE kit once I was made to wear a tiny netball skirt with my underwear very obviously visible to all. My teacher just said - you won't forget your kit again will you? It was so awful. And also disgustingly sexist - boys didn't have tp prance around in a tiny skirt. Let's hope at least that that doesn't happen these days.

To fit in with the girls who make the rules.

This is where the whole problem lies. It should obviously be the adults making the rules, and the pupils following them. If they have issues or concerns, of course they should make these known to the teachers; but it's outrageous for the pupils to be just deciding that they will make their own rules - and even worse, seeking to dictate their own 'rules' to other pupils.

But then, if schools try to assert their authority and clamp down on infringements, the pupils are defiant, bizarre accusations of the teachers being perverts are thrown into the mix and their parents back them up, against the authority figures who are trying to maintain discipline at the schools which are supposed to be preparing teenagers for the adult world.

It's just accepted as "Girls will be girls" when they decide that uniform rules are simply not for them; so nothing changes - except that sensible, rule-following pupils suffer from the resulting more draconian rules in response, whilst those who determinedly broke the rules before... oddly enough continue to merrily break the new rules as well.

Two frees a week as a head of department? You should have at least 5. Even classroom teachers get 7 a fortnight minimum.

It’s funny as well because out of school at weekends, holidays etc I rarely see a teen girl wearing a skirt this time of year. Or even when warmer. It’s jeans or joggers

I don’t know why schools insist on making kids wear such ugly and impractical uniforms. No wonder the students want to modify them.

Girls seem to get a particularly hard time with uniforms - it’s not rocket science to find something tidy and comfortable for them to wear.

How times have changed!

In the early 80’s I went to a very old fashioned school in the Valleys in South Wales for my last 2 years at High School and the girls had to wear skirts just above the knee and socks just below the knee. The PE teacher (who was like Miss Trunchbold) used to walk round in assembly with a ruler, making sure everyone followed the rules. If you didn’t, you got a sharp whack on the back of your knees. Girls also had to take options such as typing, cooking and needlework.

It was always so cold in winter and we were not allowed to wear trousers. I arrived at the school after having 3 years at a progressive school in the North of England where girls were allowed to wear trousers (and also do technical drawing, woodwork and metalwork). I got suspended twice in the school in South Wales for organising a petition for girls to be allowed to wear trousers and when that didn’t work, I attempted to organise a school strike.

A few years after I left, they got a new Head Teacher, who saw sense and allowed girls to have the same choices as boys, including wearing trousers.

In my sons school, girls were allowed to wear trousers or skirts, but boys were not allowed to wear shorts (even knee length ones). He was particularly shy as a young lad and hated having to walk up stairs with his head bent down for fear of having to see a girls knickers or arse. I am absolutely pro-choice and girls should be able to wear what they want, but not so that it makes others uncomfortable because they can’t keep their arse covered. My son was particularly embarrassed one day, as a girl walked up stairs in front of him and had a thong on, so her actually arse cheeks were on show. If that was one of my apprentices at work, I’d be having strong words about how inappropriate that would be in a work setting, so why should school be any different.

There has to be a balance.

At our local secondary school skirts have been banned all together. Girls can only wear trousers now because they could not enforce the policy of knee length skirts and boys were filming girls walking upstairs (they are the type of stairs that you can see between as you look up). Male teachers were also accused of intentionally looking up at underwear etc when challenging girls in extremely short skirts.

Awful that girls are having to adjust their clothing for men but at the same time schools have a difficult job of policing these issues, whilst safeguarding their staff against allegations.

I think you have something there. I think that, for girls, hitting puberty and becoming attractive to men suddenly turns their heads. It's a power that they don't know how to handle. It's something that young girls have to learn to navigate, plus society, sexism, peer pressure etc, etc. plus social media.

How is it particularly hard for girls? They can wear trousers, like the boys can (usually their only option); and they also usually have an additional option of a (sensible length) skirt.

Or are you meaning that the girls are often more concerned about how they look, whereas the boys usually don't care?

I don't think anybody is thrilled with school uniforms as a whole, for their style or comfort; but that simply isn't the purpose of them.

I'm afraid my answer would be - shorts and trousers for everyone.

Skirts are dreadful anyway.

I say it is particularly hard for girls partly because their uniform requirements are mostly impractical and ugly (those awful kilts) , often thin white blouses that show their bras and the tights/no tights dilemma according to the weather.

And before you say ‘well girls can wear trousers too’, they can’t if the ‘popular girls’ deem it uncool. At my kids school it was total social suicide to wear anything other than a rolled up kilt. Trousers or kilt left long resulted in bullying. You may not have noticed but in many aspects of life, girls police each others behaviour very closely and it you step out of line you are toast. In one year group at my kids’ school there was a tentative attempt at girls wearing trousers but sadly it didn’t last long.

A simple comfortable and not hideous uniform would make life easier for teachers as well as students.

I have already said this, but the local high school where I live has a gender neutral uniform and I can't remember seeing more than maybe one or two girls in trousers, or shorts, ever. It's a big school and the girls seem to prefer skirts - and I've yet to see any underwear, let alone anything worse! Schools here just wouldn't tolerate that.

Long trousers were what the boys wore at my sons' school. I think trousers are too hot in the summer so I like the idea of the option of shorts for everyone.

Sorry for the late response.

Honestly for two reasons that are partly connected:

A). Main reason- it was just the norm in my school; and probably most others to be honest; to have short (usually tube style, although it was a skater style in my case) skirts.

B). Being Autistic and having diagnosed SEN ment I often felt like an outcast at the best of times, so anything I could do to ‘fit in’ (pun not intended) I would be all over it. I had fairly small c-conservative parents so they made me wear a formal skirt.

That being said I would also often wear jeans in the winter which my parents were totally fine with despite not officially allowed, but school never said or did anything about it despite around 75% of my year wearing them.

Ironically, the ‘official skirt’ is currently in my wardrobe and I occasionally still wear it. The shorter one I chucked out soon after I left. Make of that what you will 🤷‍♀️

Why can't girls wear shorts or pants? Why is there all this handwringing and discomfort when the answer is shorts or pants? Are the adults high? What is wrong with the administration's capacity to process simple problems with simple answers? Is anyone questioning the mental capacity of the administration? Seems like it's way past time to do that as there is clearly something wrong in how they are handling this.

Trousers FFS trousers. Not leggings, not joggers. Tailored school uniform trousers.

When I was at school girls had to wear socks.

As a pp said - all wear trousers— or all wear skirts! what’s the difference, if I was in charge of a school I think I’d give that a trial , it would be really interesting to see if it changed the behaviour around the school!

My issue with this is that it’s always leveled at girls and women. Are boys forced to wear rash vests during swimming lessons? No one should be exposing their underwear, boys or girls but a blanket ban is ridiculous.

Maybe they need to have a school wide discussion on what is appropriate and what is not. Those not adhering to the rules get detention. If they carry on, parents called in and a period of exclusion thereafter.

I live in a very hot climate and see lots of very short skirts and shorts, all rolled up, but only a couple where I would consider it not decent, where a girls bum cheeks were visible. That would, to me, would raise more concern about her wellbeing.

My kids school is on one about wearing the correct socks right now.

Personally I don’t believe school uniforms should be compulsory at this point in time. I can understand from a safety perspective, but otherwise do kids really care what other kids are wearing anymore?

I think the main effort here should be put into the young males who are deiberately upskirtinfg these young girl pupils

They should be named and shamed and caught. on camera. And reported to the police. Surely this must sone kind of sexual abuse or harrasent crime whatever their age.

However the girls should also confirm to reasonable rules on skirt lengty

I assume if the boys started wearing low slung trousers that showed their buttocks the school would have something to say about that too.

If girls rolled them up they'd just look like they were trying to wade across a river.

The boys all 'sag'. There appears to be no hand-wringing about that though. I'm disappointed by the internalised misogyny by many on this thread.

Penistone "Grammar" (it's not an actual one, just in name only) told my neice her school shirt was see through and would "distract the male teachers and male students" !!!! Whilst being completely contradictory with her knee length skirt, yet others wearing bum skimming skirts. So that was ok then... uou have to wonder about those pervy teachers at leasr....

You’re missing the point.

although there may be the odd one trying to look - it’s the fact everyone looks because it’s in their face. The skirts are so high you can see bums and pants and sanitary towels (one person commented) particularly walking up the stairs!

so please read the thread and understand what the issue is here.

the OPs kids school has suggested that the girls wear tights now to protect their dignity because teachers are fed up of having to continually police the skirt length.

OP annoyed because her daughter doesn’t like tights or trousers. @Eastie77Returnsdoes your daughter not wear trousers at the weekend? Does she wear skirts all the time?

the controversy has come from the message (@Eastie77ReturnsOP was the tights/sock thing shared with parents in an email?) that the teacher said it was because it made males uncomfortable. This is why people have jumped on it.

it makes me uncomfortable too!!!