Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

I would feel uncomfortable if I could see up an another woman’s skirt for sure. It feels invasive. If a woman was walking around in very short shorts, or a bra top for example I wouldn’t. I don’t think that’s unusual or strange.
If for example you were sitting across from a woman and you could see straight up her skirt to her knickers would you be comfortable with that?

Yep I will. Grown women in the workplace shouldn’t be policed as to their dress code.

They are, though - as are grown men - if they choose to take a job with a clearly-stated (or strongly implied) dress code and are unwilling to comply with that dress code.

It doesn't even need to be anything to do with showing underwear or private parts; if you turned up to the office in dirty ripped jeans and a Pink Floyd t-shirt, the manager would 'have a word' and stop you from doing it again; if you worked in McDonalds and went in wearing a KFC uniform, it would be exactly the same.

It's odd to think that somebody would employ you in a public/colleague-facing role and have no right to tell you to dress appropriately for that job.

Your manager and colleagues in France were very much out of order; but so would you have been if you'd not gone in dressed appropriately for a professional environment (as indeed you clearly had).

When did we get to the point where it’s considered okay for a woman to walk around showing underwear and really revealing clothes? I saw a picture of Jonathan Ross’ daughter the other day. She looked absolutely dreadful. You just wonder why no one had a word with her. It’s not attractive .. at all. Also embarrassing for others. No one wants to see someone’s crotch or their breasts in graphic detail in public. Let alone at work or at school.

I also don’t want to see a man’s balls in graphic detail. Yuk. It’s just common decency for God’s sake.

When they (finally) brought in the upskirting law, nobody had to explain why it was such a terrible, invasive, creepy, wholly unacceptable thing to do; it was patently obvious to everybody. It's not even done 'just' to see some more leg; we all know what the pervs are hoping to see.

Therefore, if everybody knows that nobody should be going out of their way to look up there, why on earth would it be unreasonable to realise that (decent) people absolutely don't want to inadvertently end up seeing up there - and seeing underwear or worse - when they're just nonchalantly glancing towards somebody whom they reasonably assumed would be properly clothed, and will thus find it embarrassing and unnerving? Not to mention potentially fearful of being accused/suspected of upskirting with the 'proof' being that they have indeed (albeit unintentionally and unwillingly) seen up somebody's skirt.

It's almost incredible, isn't it, that people in their teens and older are actually having to be told this... and yet are still defiant that they are in the right and even questioning the motives of people who reluctantly have to tell them.

Are we really hailing it as a big feminist victory that so many of our teenage girls go to school every single day constantly looking around like an owl to see who might be near and able to see their knickers, with their hands permanently on the hems of their skirts to hold/pull them down and covering themselves with hands or a bag every time they feel uneasy or vulnerable? Whilst at the same time, all of the boys - and indeed the girls who are able to wear a skirt that's at least long enough for its basic purpose of keeping their underwear private, or trousers - are enjoying the freedom and confidence of not having to pay it a second thought?

We used to roll up our skirts when I was at school, but never to the lengths mentioned on here. I see the local girls going to and from school and none of them are wearing ultra short skirts with underwear on show. As I mentioned, when it comes to their winter uniform many of the kilts are almost at their ankles. I was in another town on Monday as kids had just come out of school, and once again there were no ultra short skirts on display from any of the schools.

Years ago when I was at high school I was told off, out of school grounds, by a teacher for wearing non-regulation socks!

Our school checked to make sure we were wearing the school knickers ! Burgundy granny ones
and
we weren’t allowed to eat in public wearing our school uniforms

late 70s / mid 80s

I agree, some people seem to be living in their own bubbles. Any place I worked at had a dress code of sorts and I can remember one woman being sent home to get changed after wearing a rather skimpy top (which she was wearing as she was sunburnt and clothing hurt her skin). Some places even have - shock, horror - uniforms which have to be worn.

Rather than ban socks he should send the pupils flouting the rules on skirt length home. If the parents get called to collect each time, they will hopefully get fed up and deal with it. There is no reasonable excuse for wearing a skirt so short underwear is visible in a school setting.

No, not if she was clearly aware based on sitting position etc and didn't care. If I happened to notice, I'd think for a moment 'oh that lady's knickers are showing' then I'd get on with my day and just not look there again?

If I thought it was unintentional I'd let her know, as I'd like someone to do that for me if the situation were reversed.

And if it was me, outside of a work environment, realising, e.g., that an ok length skirt while standing was then too short after sitting and showed my underwear, I'd think 'oh well everythings covered by my underwear so no biggie, nothing indecent on show, and just make a mental note for future.

To my mind, unless it's sheer underwear it's really no different to a bikini or leotard.

I still don't understand why people are not getting the point of all of this. The dress code is there for a reason, and the rules around that should be thoroughly explained to the girls breaking them. No one is saying it's okay for girls to have underwear on show! But saying that the new rules around uniform - just for girls - is because it makes boys/men "uncomfortable" is wrong. The deputy was wrong. Those boys/men need to be educated about the fact that there is NO circumstance that can justify making "suggestive" comments towards girls. It's natural that teenage boys will - that's why they need to be guided and educated on the matter! Instead, the deputy is suggesting that the girls adapt so as not to make the poor boys/men feel "uncomfortable". That's not okay!!

The skirt thing they’re right to do. Can literally see girls butt cheeks at my dd school so it’s as much to teach the girls how to respect their own bodies. The socks thing is too far. It’s a school not a nightclub so if anyone feels uncomfortable the indecent outfits should be dealt with.

When they do send them home we get sad face stories in the media.

Agree

heres a headline when
200 pupils were sent home. Mainly for short skirts
but some for false eyelashes and makeup

One parent complained the teachers didn’t want to teach the girls and the rules were sexist. ??
Obviously The fact that only the girls were wearing skirts isn’t the issue. It’s the length ! Unbelievable that the local councillor didn’t even understand !

Sending them home could count as an illegal exclusion.

Very well said

I used to think it was girls rolling their skirts up when they got on the school bus but when we have parents eve they have their skirts rolled up with parents present. I would say this is easily 95% of the kids at our school. Parents say they want uniform in our surveys we do yet won’t help us enforce it. Many girls have the hem on their skirts altered. I’ve seen the adverts on local fb from seamstresses offering this service.
Scrap uniform. Worn properly it looks smart. Worn incorrectly it looks ridiculous.

Unfortunately it’s feminism gone wrong. Women have a right to choose what to wear etc.

which I agree to a point.

But these are young girls that need educating.

yes the boys do too but it goes both ways.

uniforms are there for a reason. I couldn’t wear skirts that short in my job. It’s just not ok. People will look. Males and females.

I totally agree.
I cannot understand the mindset of girls who dress like this, I cannot understand only assume it’s to get attention from others. There can’t be any other reason.
Then they turn around and bleat about the attention being unwanted.

If it’s within the school rules and / or published policy it isn’t.

It is sometimes difficult not to look at something that makes you uncomfortable if it is directly in front of you and you need you eyes open to see where you’re going. Such as on the stairs.

i would feel uncomfortable seeing another woman’s underwear close to me in a work or a school situation. Especially a child in school. I don’t want to see a child’s underwear. Or, as is the case quite often, their arse cheeks. I shouldn’t have to see arse cheeks in my place of work. It’s great you wouldn’t feel uncomfortable by this. I would and so would many others regardless of their sex.

Often though you then see the family - all generations out together with the floppy buns, false eyelashes and nails even Granny 😂

yes I've seen this....and not being funny, but it isn't appropriate if they don't at least have tights on. I feel everyone is being a bit purposely obtuse about this. It isn't appropriate to have a skirt just about skimming the bum, and frankly, we are humans, and sexual attraction is a real thing amongst humans, especially teenage boys. Just wear the clothes properly?

But it sounds like it’s not the socks that is the issue, but the far too short skirts? I think blaming ‘men and boys’ for this is as bad as blaming all the girls for the actions of the ones who roll up their skirts. I have to say I am shocked at seeing the majority of girls who attend the comprehensive near my boys school, and the shortness of their skirts! I don’t think it’s unfair to say that it makes many people uncomfortable (not just the male teachers, and boy pupils, but also other females who attend or teach at the schools where this is happening). I really don’t like seeing it, they roll their skirts whilst walking down the road towards their school and it is unfortunately the majority of the girls walking that route that we drive down.

I am a mum of two tween / teen boys and they would be very uncomfortable if they had to sit in lessons with anyone (male or female) who were visibly displaying their underwear and backsides - it’s not professional or reasonable. I don’t understand why schools don’t just have trousers as the standard uniform for both boys and girls (my boys go to a boys school and there’s no option for skirts - it’s either standard black suit trousers from the school outfitters or knee length shorts for the younger years, both of which are decent and smart). One standard uniform across both genders would stop all of the issues. I feel sorry for your daughter as it sounds as though she is following the rules, but at the same time I think (although poorly worded), having bottoms and underwear in view does make other pupils and teachers uncomfortable, and that’s perfectly reasonable and they should be allowed to say so. Would you rather that no-one was allowed to say anything and these girls were just allowed to attend school pretty much just in their pants? How would you feel if the boys attended wearing speedos, or briefs with no trousers or shorts on? Would your daughter be fine with that?

come on.
I'm a woman. I was a girl, I was teen. Suggesting that teenage girls don't want to be attractive to teenage boys and that the way they dress can be a part of this, is disingenuous. Accepting this doesn't mean you sanction sexual assault. People just pretend not to understand stuff.