Girls at DD’s school cannot wear socks because men and boys feel uncomfortable

[Eastie77Returns]

DD’s school has placed a ban on girls wearing socks due to persistent issues with girls wearing skirts that are too short and not the school’s regulation kilts. According to the e-mail sent to parents, girls wearing socks with said short skirts has resulted in some “members of the school community” feeling uncomfortable. When the issue was raised further by some parents, the (male) Deputy made it clear that it was essentially unfair to male pupils, and presumably teachers, to be made to feel awkward when girls undergarments were visible to them. There have also been issues with boys making suggestive comments to girls in short skirts.

I support the school enforcing school uniform policy but hate the fact that 12 year old DD and her friends are already being policed as to what they can or cannot wear because…men. DD hates the thick black tights she now has to wear. She always wore the correct length skirt and knee high socks.

The situation will apparently be reviewed ahead of the warmer months. I just feel this reinforces the view that girls & women need to ensure they dress in a way that doesn’t attract male attention but boys are not learning that inappropriate comments and behaviour towards a girl because of the way she dresses is completely unacceptable.

My son’s school has enforced the same rule and i agree with it. The skirts are so short you can see underwear and my son says he hates walking up stairs when girls are walking up or down as it does make him feel uncomfortable like seeing anyone’s underwear would make you feel uncomfortable. A few girl’s mums have said it is unfair in hot weather but for context the boys have to wear trousers all year - no shorts allowed so it’s no different to that really. I agree with you about the whole issue in general policing peoples clothes but as long as skirts are rolled up to become non existent then tights make sense. I am not even a prude - even though i sound like one!

It was like that when I was in secondary school in the 00,s? Skirts had to be worn with tights not socks. Doesn’t look very smart and I’ve never seen a woman in the workplace with a pencil skirt and socks on. Think about it

A while ago, I saw 3 teenage girls walking towards me wearing black tights and no skirt- apparently the fashion as not an unusual sight. I remarked in earshot, that I admired their courage in walking about in their underwear. I am a g.g m.
Don't know if it worked.

I agree with you. They should just be told to readjust their skirt to the correct length. Can you challenge it?

If trousers + socks aren't acceptable - and they ought to be, I'd look for tights advertised as 'cooling' or 'moisture wicking' in the short term.

And yes skirts should be worn with anti-chafing shorts / cycling shorts.

It'll be worth the effort to find formal style cotton / linen trousers for the summer.

I don't think expecting all the pupils to ensure their uniform covers their underwear is pandering to the male gaze (boys with low cut trousers showing the waistband of their pants is just as problematic)

The likely reason is girls even in yr7 (so 11+ years old) roll their skirts until they are ridiculously short, even for other females it isn't great. They constantly roll them up and yes I was younger, but then add on safeguarding outside of school, knee high socks with bows as long as the socks (and don’t forget the gems and other embellishments ie gold stud etc). And no not many girls wear the under shorts. For what it’s worth I don’t think the boys care much.
Schools have a duty of care towards the girls in and out of school, some parents go crazy so many schools are adapting a trouser only policy just to keep the peace from warring parents, which I think is a shame overall especially when the summer arrives and it is hot (when we realise what the boys have to put up with). Which is why schools try to placate and helpfully design skirts, but it all still gets out of hand. If everyone just obeyed the uniform policy of the school they chose…

A few inconvenient lunch-time detentions might help the rolled skirts issue. 3 strikes and they're out: it escalates to classroom report or something equally annoying.

TROUSERS!!!!

If they don't stick to the skirt policy, what makes the

If they don't stick to the skirt policy, what makes the Head think they will stick to the 'no sock' policy. I can't see the logic

So you don't mind your girls walking around with their skirts hitched up as high as possible. It's obviously going to get the wrong sort of attention.

And staff should be ensuring they rolled back down again. Names taken and further consequences when needed. The men and boys being "uncomfortable" is an appalling reason for any rule change.

OP I’m late to this but… we had similar some years ago (year 7 or 8) about skorts “girls had to change out of them as males felt uncomfortable” funnily enough the boys could stay in their shorts! This was the wording from a female Games teacher… cue a flurry of emails from parents and a grovelling apology to the girls from the male Head. Blaming girls for men’s/boys reactions or feelings is never ok. They will always roll their skirts up…I don’t like it particularly but it’s not going to change… I agree enforce uniform policy but never ever bring how males feel into the conversation… It’s absolutely “her fault because of what she was wearing” territory… I’m pretty sure my strongly worded email covered that point!!!! Interestingly when daughter moved to senior school and the serious skirt rolling began it was raised in similar fashion by a mother in a parent forum evening (referencing skirts and skorts)… Shot down by the deputy head who made the same point about girls being over policed, and also said “I have much bigger things to worry about and much better things to talk to pupils about than the length of their skirts”… She went up considerably in my estimation that evening!

Trousers for all, and shorts allowed in the summer months for all boys and girls. It's madness to see the boys wearing trousers and often blazers in hot weather. I believe school children should also be wearing trainers not school shoes. But then I didn't wear school uniform growing up.

Ask to see the risk assessment for the change. Thick tights can cause thrush. So a girl with thrush or something similar would have to stay off school.

I don't know why schools don't have culottes for uniform.

The school must have a policy for dealing with pupils who turn up wearing non-uniform clothing. They should treat too-short skirts the same as they would jumpers the wrong colour, white trainers etc. Skirts are difficult because the length can be altered during the day but some schools cope better than others (I regularly pass 5 high schools and one has no skirts much above the knee). Making girls wear tights doesn't address the real issue and the school's reasoning is unacceptable.

Because context matters. The clothes we wear for sports, designed for that purpose, would not be appropriate in other places, like an office. Surely reinforcing uniform rules teaches that?

Some of you want to protect your child’s right to show their backside in a public place. And then act mock shocked at the result.

As my Nan would’ve said it’s school not fashion parade. If they do that, then they need to be reprimanded. I don’t know how schools work now because it’s been soooooo long since I’ve been there, are report cards still a thing? Personally, I think trousers are a better uniform option anyway.

My dd's secondary banned knee high socks with skirts for girls, even though it was part of the uniform.
The reason they gave was that it was distracting for male members of staff and male pupils as it fuelled the typical schoolgirl fantasy.

I felt the same as you @Eastie77Returns I complained, but apparently the boys can't help it.

My girls (teens) go to an independant school. (primary and secondary school on one site)

The senior girls who choose to wear a skirt HAVE to wear tights all year. (Even in the summer)

Its the uniform; it is what it is; they all comply; there are no issues.

Having to wear tights has not affected them, and I choose to send my children to a school where the uniform policy makes sure the students look smart, and the uniform policy is enforced.

(If i dont like it I could pay to send them somewhere else, the head isnt going to change the schools uniform policy for me.....)

The primary children, who have a different uniform can choose socks OR tights. The senior girls wear tights with their skirts, just as they do their blazers, and tie during winter uniform season. Its a non issue.

Shorts/leggings/joggers are better.
Short PE skirts are just not necessary, never have been and never will be in my opinion. I always felt so conscious would’ve been much happier in joggers.

FFS that’s vile! the male species can never control themselves!

My 17 year old DD is at college. One boy has been excluded because of his continual sexual harassment of her. Another boy has had a disciplinary because he threatened her when she rejected his advances. The only reason any of this has actually happened is because I took them to task. The college would have happily swept it under the carpet!!! 😡

Surely there’s some nuance in the idea that I’m not responsible for your feelings. Honestly, if a man came into my workplace wearing hot pants I would feel uncomfortable about it. The outfit is overly sexual for the context and I really don’t want to see a bulge or be aware that he’s knowingly dressed in a way that shows it off. How people dress is part of a communication about who they are and how they’re likely to behave, it absolutely is intended by most to elicit some kind of reaction in others.

Teen girls often don’t realize that certain styles are socially interpreted in a particular way but it’s reasonable to teach them that connection and expect that they start to differentiate situations requiring different clothing.

So yes, my clothing can affect the people around me and I should be aware of that. The bit we need to be clear about is that clothing alone is never ever a sufficient excuse for violence, harassment, intimidation, rudeness etc. I might be wary of the man in hot pants but I wouldn’t be justified in staring at him or making sexual comments or whatever. I’d be justified in slightly more cautious behavior around him because he’s shown that he is willing to break social conventions and dress in a way that’s overly sexual in a non sexual context.

short skirt plus long socks is a sexually coded combination in our society, like it or not and regardless of whether the individual consciously has any intent to create a sexual reaction. So it’s fair for school to ban that combination.