Green Party wanting to legalise drugs.

[YorkieTheRabbit]

Maybe I’m not thinking this through correctly, so could anyone explain to me how legalising heroin would work.

It’s highly addictive, causes physical dependency and can damage to the body.

Then, who is supposed to be paying for the supply? Would it be taxpayers basically paying for people to become addicted then paying to treat the addiction?
I know that people will take drugs regardless but I just can’t get my head around this.
Surely the Greens don’t think that drug dealers will just shrug their shoulders and go and get a proper job 🤷‍♀️

Will they be delivered by deliveroo, along with a KFC?
Or will people be able to buy drugs from dodgy Dom down the road, who’ll pop round in five minutes with whatever you fancy,. Plus Dom will need to fill in a tax return. Or will people need to catch a bus to the nearest dispensary? The mind boggles

Are they planning on charging VAT the same as alcohol or will it be free on prescription?
Please excuse my rambling as I’m sleeping deprived but this really has me pondering.

Sorry, I still don't understand what you're trying to say?

No, individual don't know what they're buying when they buy it.

But, as a society we can find out what's in street drugs by acquiring a load and testing them - which can and does happen.

Not sure what you mean by this, either? "And for all the hysteria about cannabis, the UK is still one of the worlds leading suppliers."

I get the feeling you do have sensible and thought-provoking points to make, but I'm afraid you are going to have to give a bit more information as to what those points are!

There were massive information campaigns about AIDS in the 80s in the UK, which have since been criticised for various reasons. Is it this you're alluding to? What is your point exactly?

And I still can't work out if we're agreeing or not!

But, as a society we can find out what's in street drugs by acquiring a load and testing them - which can and does happen.

No. As a society you can find out what is in the sample you tested. Nothing more.

Yes, you can infer statistically, if you like. But that's probability, not certainly.

I detest bad science. And the "drugs" "debate" probably attracts the worst.

I am very much in the "There is one sheep in Scotland, one side of which is black" school of thought.

For herion addicts, treat addiction as a health issue not a crime. Give addicts heroin via clinics where it's part of a plan to wean them off. Currently addicts get methodone, which is more dangerous than heroin, so the status quo makes no sense.

I agree methadone isn’t a good idea, but re weaning addicts off heroin, what if they don’t want to be weaned off? Will they still be able to get it at the clinics?

Of course the history of heroin in the UK is that there were plenty of fully functioning addicts when it wasn't illegal. That's when the Met "drugs squad" was two officers in the 1950s.

All sounds very rational and sensible.

How is Portugal doing?

But that's not full legalisation, which is what the Greens have proposed.

If drugs were legalised, would those convicted of drug crimes be exonerated?

I thought the MN response is "we all did drugs when we were younger, it was loads of fun". If your DC start doing drugs it's not okay to try and stop them but just educate them on drug use

Criminalising it does not stop people either selling or using drugs, but it does mean that drug users and sellers are more likely to end up in prison where - given the state of the UK prison network - they are exposed to more criminality, more drugs, and then have a criminal record that means they'll struggle more to get a job and re-enter society in a way that's less likely to cause relapse or reoffence.

I used to work in addiction services and all that involvement with the police as a result of using drugs did was cause huge amounts of mistrust of 'the system' and make it harder for people to re-engage with the world when getting clean.

It's hard to give a simple answer, since there are so many factors and consequences. Some things have improved, some haven't.

On the plus side, HIV infections due to injecting drugs are down hugely. The cost to the justice system of processing so many drugs-related charges is also much reduced. (NB trafficking is still illegal.)

Drugs-related deaths came down initially, but have risen again since, to the same level they were at in 2000 (pre-legalisation).

On the minus side, more Portuguese adults said they had tried drugs in 2022 (12.8%) than did in 2001 (7.8%). In 2020 the country had more high-risk opioid users than the EU average.

From what I've read, their programme worked really well when it was lavishly funded and staffed. After the 2007-08 recession, funding was cut and things started to slide. The founder of the programme, João Goulao, said : "Decriminalisation is not a silver bullet ... If you decriminalise and do nothing else, things will get worse."

Given the UK's woeful record of failing to properly fund progressive long-term health initiatives, I don't hold out much hope that we could make it work here.

In any case, it's not possible to simply mimic another country's programme and expect identical results. There are too many variables - different drugs, different culture, different additional stresses.

Look at what happened in Oregon, US - they tried to decriminalise in 2021, inspired by Portugal, and had to roll it back (partially) three years later.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/28/oregon-drug-criminalization-portugal-00148872

In any case, it's not possible to simply mimic another country's programme and expect identical results

Er, apparently it is. The entire 1980s Tory policy was called "lets be American". Even now, Reforms only policy is "Let's do a Donald"

A frightening prospect!

Wouldn't you be mortified if your kids were doing drugs harder than weed?