Green Party wanting to legalise drugs.

[YorkieTheRabbit]

Maybe I’m not thinking this through correctly, so could anyone explain to me how legalising heroin would work.

It’s highly addictive, causes physical dependency and can damage to the body.

Then, who is supposed to be paying for the supply? Would it be taxpayers basically paying for people to become addicted then paying to treat the addiction?
I know that people will take drugs regardless but I just can’t get my head around this.
Surely the Greens don’t think that drug dealers will just shrug their shoulders and go and get a proper job 🤷‍♀️

Will they be delivered by deliveroo, along with a KFC?
Or will people be able to buy drugs from dodgy Dom down the road, who’ll pop round in five minutes with whatever you fancy,. Plus Dom will need to fill in a tax return. Or will people need to catch a bus to the nearest dispensary? The mind boggles

Are they planning on charging VAT the same as alcohol or will it be free on prescription?
Please excuse my rambling as I’m sleeping deprived but this really has me pondering.

I don't know, but if he is then he's a bigger idiot than I thought (and I thought he was a full-tilt pillock).

See this is where I have a problem with the Greens. Absolutely no patience. Trying to change things.

We've only had the war on drugs for 55 years. We won't know if it's succeeded for at least another 45 years.

This is politics, not football.

@Fupoffyagrasshole

Is there really heaps of evidence that decriminalisation of drugs makes better communities? I hear this mentioned but have never seen examples. Also, is that the same as what Zach is suggesting? I understood he was going further to make it all legal for consumer sales.

@AWedgeOfLemonAndASmartAnswerForEverything

I could be wrong- it isn’t entirely clear to me what he is proposing

Decriminalisation of using drugs and replacing this with a requirement for treatment is probably not bad. It’s a shame that doesn’t appear to be what he was suggesting.

@YesIReallyDidOK "Banning or criminalising things doesn't stop people doing them."

No, I don't agree. I could name you at least six people I've known who would happily be getting high every weekend, if it was legal and easier to do.

There's not heaps of evidence, no. What Portugal did has worked well for them, but apparently the the same approach was tried in Oregon and they had to roll it back because the specific issues with fentanyl addiction were not solved, and some outcomes were worse. But who knows if they actually implemented it in the same way. It won't be one size fits all. No idea for example if Portugal has / had county lines. They were trying to fix the heroin and HIV problem, and it worked.

And parts of Lisbon are now extremely seedy.

Social costs must encompass non druggy citizens feeling less safe.

Just an example of how idiotic ZP is on this issue, he said to the BBC re drugs, ‘If anyone wants to do it and they're doing it safely fine, I'm glad people are having a good time.’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8g7ymq959o

Well I think that is irresponsible because we know many drugs can’t be taken safely, they cause addiction and psychological disorders. They destroy individual’s abilities to look after their family or to keep a job or manage their finances. This is basic stuff. And he is not limiting these comments to ‘softer’ drugs.

The only people I know who have never taken recreational drugs (excluding alcohol) don't want to. I wouldn't risk it if it was legal, I don't want to be addicted or risk my mental health. But plenty of my friends have, some still do.

The people I know in public health who've argued for legislation talk about controlling the quality, avoiding accidental deaths etc.

I have no idea how it would work in practice but I'd like something to be done

I've seen what heroin addiction does and if he is talking about legalisation then he does not have a clue. And legalising date rape drugs. The man is unhinged.

I am all for programmes where addicts safely use drugs, with health professionals supervising and helping to limit harm, in conjunction with supporting them to stop using. That is a very different thing to making all drugs legal in a big free for all.

In practice having all drugs sold legally will completely destroy some areas where addicts are drawn to locations where the drugs are sold, and then families and others will move away from those areas, and we will end up with ‘no go’ drug ghettos in parts of cities. Those ‘no go’ areas will then have a higher concentration of individuals who are unemployed/ unemployable, declining local businesses and deprivation.

I wouldn’t want to live anywhere near a place like that and it would change the face a make up of our cities.

Decriminalisation is not the same thing as legalisation

True, but Polanski said “it’s about legalisation and regulation”. Although if you told me he didn’t know the difference between decriminalisation and legalising, I’d believe you.

Lisbon was much worse before. All cities have seedy places. The reduced social costs are one of the main successes of the programme - there are fewer "druggies" on the streets, so I'm not sure what your beef with these facts is. It hasn't increased drug use.

There's a paper here which discusses the policy: research.unl.pt/ws/portalfiles/portal/111670712/Addiction_-2022-Moury-_Understanding_successful_policy_innovation_The_case_of_Portuguese_drug_policy.pdf

From the paper:

"... [comparing] Portugal to neighbouring countries that did not introduce significant reforms in the period 2001–11 and showed that Portugal is the only country that exhibited a decline in hazardous drug use. More recent data show that hazardous drug use in Portugal has continued to fall since 2010
and that the country has the lowest drug-related death rates in Europe today. Since the reform, moreover, Portuguese police officers have been able to shift resources from people using drugs to drug traffickers. Consequently, the amount of drugs seized has increased for all categories, and the number of people incarcerated on the account of drug use decreased—thus reducing justice overload. The reform was also a profitable investment for the state, as the
economic benefits (e.g. decrease in health-related and legal system
expenditures) were higher than its costs."

It’s highly addictive, causes physical dependency and can damage to the body.

And cause great distress and damage to the addict’s family and loved ones.
I’ve had morphine or similar after operations and it stopped the pain and made me feel great. If it was legalised I could imagine being in pain for which I would normally take over the counter medicine and thinking ‘hmm, I’ll just buy a few doses of morphine then that will cure everything’.
It’s a really daft idea.

I think ZP could help himself by talking about studies with some degree of knowledge and using a comparator so that we understand what he is suggesting. Portugal may well be an interesting example. But all I hear is him spouting off the cuff with no detail at all on a really serious issue. There is also a lack of respect in his relaxed comments- it is disrespectful to all if those families who have been ripped apart by drugs.

Yes, he's a pillock.

ETA: he reminds me of that Novara media idiot who was doing the rounds during Brexit. The "luxury communism" one.

There is also a lack of respect in his relaxed comments- it is disrespectful to all if those families who have been ripped apart by drugs.

This 💯

@goz yes I’m fully aware that legalising something doesn’t make it free, however the two addicts I’ve known, were not capable of working and so other than theft, had no way of paying for their habits.

As for me asking if it would end up on prescription, I assume that methadone on prescription for a heroin addict would be free to them.

I believe that’s covered by their policy that people should re-educate themselves so as not to think of it as a problem.

Weed, coke, mdma, heroin, amphetamins, mushrooms should be decriminalised.

If the Treasury could tax cocain or weed in the UK, thar would make a lot of money.

But the new gen drugs, ketamine, fentanyl, date rape drug, captagon, dissociatives, krokodil and other synthetic cannabis, they would be mad.

But it’s Zack the Hypnotist we’re talking about …

They also want to write off all student debt.

They think we can write off all our debts because we only owe money to the Bank of England (we don’t).

People on MN think Reform would be the end of the world. The Greens would be ten times worse.

They arent a joke. They are growing in popularity but just who the hell is voting for them??

Weed in stronger forms - skunk - is dangerous and can lead to psychosis. It should not be legalised.