Tourette’s/BAFTAs offensive language

[Lochroy]

I wasn’t watching, I’ve just read the article on BBC news. I will admit I know little of Tourette’s and therefore posting to understand.

The tics agree involuntary, and often use offensive language. But what I’m struggling to get my head around is excusing use of the N word because it was caused by the disability when it was (seemingly) only directed at black people?

Also presumably it’s learned vocab so children don’t have swear words as tics? How does this develop?

We live in a time where people want blood and a name to blame and demonise. Their tiny brains can’t comprehend that In this situation, there’s nobody to blame or demonise.

Thi thread is riddled with ableism and a nice little token of antisemitism to boot, by people screaming HAVE COMPASSION. It’s probably the mat pathetic display of dimwits I’ve seen on MN in a long time

I think it’s a given that these two people were impacted by the use of the word. That isn’t the issue here. The issue is, whether intelligent, rational and compassionate people are going to hold a disabled person responsible for using a slur they find offensive, even though they know that the use of that slur was absolutely nothing to do with the character or beliefs of that person, but entirely the product of a disability over which they have no control. By insisting on an apology in the full knowledge that without the disability this person would never have said such a thing, is asking that person to apologise for their disability.

The use of two totally inappropriate analogies upthread - a blind man, and a wheelchair user - very clearly demonstrates that people cannot appreciate the difference. As a disabled person l find many of the views expressed here shocking and frightening.

What Black people are saying is that the word should have been edited out.

And that is fair enough. I think the word should have been edited out too.

But let’s not pretend that is all that is being said, though.

It is being said that this man meant exactly what he said, that he is racist, that these are his true thoughts, that he shouldn’t be allowed out in public, that he is using his disability as an excuse to be racist, there have been threats of violence made against him, there is outright denial of his disability and other things that would result in this post being deleted.

This is a man who carries a burden in life heavier than any of of us will ever understand. His disability has ruined his life. He has attempted suicide.

People with disabilities this severe and to this extent should be treated with compassion and understanding. The views people are expressing are actually frightening.

What purpose does going after a disabled man in this way serve?

Can you imagine what it must be like in Johns shoes

I think this is half the problem.

It’s not that people can’t imagine what it’s like to be in John’s shoes; it’s that they don’t think they need to imagine what it’s like to be in John’s shoes.

Aren't you? They've been pointed out to you repeatedly.

What shocks me is how people are more interested in the feelings of grown adults who cant be bothered educating themselves on a disability simply because they are black. As if being black makes you self centered and only thinking of your own feelings. Thats offensive in itself never mind the absolutely shocking posts saying John should have been with a guardian or in a seperate room!!

Was the word offensive? Yes. Was it intended to be offensive? No. Its as simple as that and if these celebrities want to play the victim in this situation then that makes them awful people.

It's been heartening to see all the love and support for John from UK social media. Apart from a few cranks, the judgement really does seem to be coming in the main from ill-informed Americans.
I hope Nexflix US is also going to host I Swear, because they could urgently do with some education on the disability.

But ALL slurs are his tics, that’s the nature of his condition. If he stayed away because there were people there that his tics might offend, he would never leave the house.

John Davidson tried to kill himself when he was younger, because he couldn’t live with the harrowing guilt and shame that his condition caused. It literally tore his family apart. That is such a heavy weight to carry.

When he met Dottie she helped him to see that the Tourette’s was the problem, not him. She taught him that he should not apologise - any apology would be completely empty and worthless because it wasn’t him that was shouting these things, it was the Tourette’s. Only by letting go of the terrible crushing responsibility was he able to reframe his condition and use it for good. The reason that so many people in the UK understand Tourette’s while those in the States evidently don’t is down to John Davidson.

But after all this, people think he should make an exception and apologise in this instance. They think he should take responsibility, to say “I’m sorry I shouted that terrible thing”. In doing that, he would have to extend apologies to the thousands of people he has shouted at. He would have to take that responsibility and guilt and shame back onto his shoulders.

I don't understand a lot of the comments on this thread. People don't need to "pick a side".

As someone with Tourette's, John Davidson obviously has tics which cause him to say the worst possible thing at any given time. That is not his fault and nobody should be demonising him.

At the same time, Michael Jordan and Delroy Lindo should not have had to experience that, and Lindo was entirely within his rights to point out that someone from BAFTA should have spoken to them afterwards. He wasn't pointing the finger at John Davidson but criticising the BAFTA response. Which is fair enough.

It is perfectly possible to acknowledge that this incident is likely to have caused deep harm and offence while also acknowledging that it was involuntary with no offence intended. Those two things can be true at the same time.

The really troubling thing for me is why the BBC didn't edit it out for the sake of all concerned. John Davidson has said that he is mortified by what happened - it must be horrible embarrassing to have that moment broadcast to the nation. And black people who were watching the programme - including children - absolutely shouldn't have had to listen to that kind of language on the BBC.

The latest explanation that I've heard is that the people who were editing were not actually in the venue but in some kind of editing van, and consequently they may not have actually heard what was said. But the facial expressions of the presenters should have alerted them to an issue - MJ and DL were incredibly composed and professional, but their shock was visible and should have raised some alarm bells.

Too many people assume they have the authority to speak for an entire group of people. Some people on this thread have said he is responsible, he did it on purpose, that he must have control over his tics, that he should apologise.

Absolutely BBC should have edited it out. For the dignity of all those involved.

I think it’s wrong they didn’t edit it out, but DL and MBJ are no more a victim in this than JD. He was equally let down, the BBC should have known how many ableist are in the world gleefully demonising this man as much as they’d know racists are gleeful at hearing this word

Where is the evidence the two celebrities have taken wild offence?

The footage I saw, they handled it with dignity and grace and cracked on, then gave a mild statement after saying something like ‘I wish someone from BAFTA came to speak with us after’. No mention of blaming the individual. They’ve been put in a horrible position - so has the person with Tourette’s. All parties were merely just existing. I feel compassion and sympathy for everyone involved. They’re actors - not medical professionals or experts in disability.

Maybe a ‘you might hear involuntary shouts or noises throughout the ceremony’ disclaimer didn’t really cut it to describe a complex disability? I think they were right in saying there should have been a debrief after the event.

The only solution is that people should watch the film and understand how John is not at all in control of his words, and acceptance that we have to live in a society that’s also fully enjoyed by people with Tourette’s. And that these indigents will happen to all manner of people and whilst for many words are hurtful, nobody can reasonable blame anyone or have a “solution”. Because all “solutions” segregate disabled people from society - some people are fine with that but thankfully the law and decent humans don’t accept that should be the case

And someone on the quotes below yours said black people are being pathetic.

So who is assuming the authority to speak for one group people?

It is YOU who exaggerated and said “should people with disabilities not be allowed out of the house?”. (Paraphrased).

Deliberately disingenuous comment designed to shut down the feelings of black people who are upset that an offensive word was not edited out when it could have been.

NOTHING at all to do with penalising people with disabilities. More about respecting black people. Seems you dont seem to be able to grasp this.

Only if you educate yourself on Tourette’s before you post further.

Indeed. I’ve just caught up on the overnight posts. A fuck ton of weaponised ignorance and a sprinkling of people who seem to believe that their colour absolves them of being a nasty cunt, because anyone who calls them out on it must be racist.

I think as a society we’ve become too obsessed with blame, solutions and learning experiences. Sometimes, there’s no one to blame, nothing to do and nothing much to learn from things.

JD, and anybody with Tourette’s, do not owe anybody an apology for being disabled.

If you think otherwise may I suggest you examine your own prejudices, ableism and have a good research of what Tourette’s is and how/why it manifests

People have said it actually. If you’re wondering what the deleted comments said, it’s largely “keep him at home” “hes faking it” and “People with Tourette’s should be gagged”
I wish I was kiddibg
And then there’s social media where people are calling for him to be beaten up.

Exactly.

Spot on.

First of all, I did not make the comment about disabled people not leaving the house. The other person actually said 'people complaining about this are pathetic.'

I pointed out is wrong for anyone to assume responsibility to speak for an entire group. Which it is.

I also agreed that it was a terrible choice for BBC not edit it out.

I do feel that any one who has spent a day with my friend who is having a bad day would ultimately go "you know what, I'm not really that offended after all. I'm glad I don't have to deal with this" even if she said the most offensive thing ever about them.

Tourettes is really that bad.

It's so sobering.

It's like everyone wants the feel-good factor of a biopic about a disability, but not to be confronted by the reality of that disability.

Agree. The poster asserted that disability shouldn’t be considered a free pass for causing offence, but clearly doesn’t apply that to being black because they then continue their overt ableism, including the statement that people with Tourette’s use it as a ‘cover’ for racism. And when people challenge that attitude they cry ‘racist’ and flounce off the thread.

Exactly. Editing out the disability because it doesn't fit with real life is almost worse because actually people DO have to cope with it if they come into contact with someone with Tourettes. The person with Tourettes isn't doing it voluntarily. They do not have intentions of hurting feelings. And you can clearly identify and tell someone with Tourettes from someone just being abusive because of how tics physically manifest in a none natural manner.

It's not about nuace or accomodating others because in that scenario the most vulnerable person in need of support is the disabled person. In other scenarios it will be other people. You can appease people around the edges of that but you can not discriminate against the person with Tourettes because they have a severe and genuine disability.

How do you protect others if someone is going to the supermarket for example. Or the doctors. They can not be separated from society. Yet this seems to be what people still are asking for.

It was the BBCs duty of care to protect him. They failed miserably.