Why aren't people vaccinating against measles?

[TableTurners]

Just read about the measles outbreak in Enfield and Haringey at the moment - just wondering why a lot of people aren't vaccinating again measles these days?

Apparently the UK has lost it's measles free status or something, just seems weird to me that we're letting something old fashioned like this go rife again.

Although sometimes health centres don’t help. As vaccination is a real thing of mine I’ve repeatedly pointed out that the one solo sign (in not a very accessible place) advertising the gelatin free version is frequently covered by the poster for the church monthly coffee morning.

Yes, I remember the delirium, it was so scary. My ds is fully vaccinated. My mum said both my sister and I were vaccinated but we got it anyway, knowing my mum I'm not a hundred percent convinced we were.

A very well rounded post. Agree on your points.

Let’s be happy there’s two huge reasons why measles is making a comeback and people are skirting around it.

Immigration is one, other countries don’t have a vaccine program like we have so whilst it’s not the people who are entering our countries fault it quickly becomes everyone’s problem when diseases we mostly eradicated are making a comeback.

Second problem is the mistrust people have after covid. Lots of people are angry about being forced into having the covid jab, and let’s be honest it was largely forced because you couldn’t go anywhere without it and people were losing jobs if they refused it. That brings us back to mandatory vaccines, huge amounts of people refused the covid vaccine so do you really think forcing it on people will work? When people are made to do something like that it automatically makes them suspicious so making vaccines mandatory could have the opposite effect.

One of my baby class friends 25yrs ago, her baby couldn't be vaccinated because the vaccine was built from something the baby had an anaphylactic reaction to. I want to say egg white, but not entirely sure, it was a long time ago! They did have the vaccine when they were older I think as it was differently made, or maybe they’d become less allergic. But they would have been one of the little kids that needed herd immunity, like numerous other children poorly with cancer and other serious illnesses.

I’d make a school place dependant on being vaccinated. People as a crowd really are pretty thick!

Stupidity.

You know, when you resort to just calling other people "stupid" off the bat, you're not going to hear the serious, deeply-thought-through reasons people have for not vaccinating their children...

@AmusedAquaTraybakeWe need to stop listening to their rubbish! Children can die from these diseases. We’ve heard people ad nauseum. It’s time to make vaccinations mandatory unless medically it’s wrong. Other views are totally unwanted now. The damage of hearing people needs to be rectified - for the sake of dc.

My point has been made. Have a nice day

When people are made to do something like that it automatically makes them suspicious so making vaccines mandatory could have the opposite effect.

Vaccinations are not mandatory now, yet not enough people are having their children vaccinated to ensure herd immunity. Surely making it compulsory couldn’t be any worse?

I think one of the biggest problems is complacency. Those of us old enough to remember when measles was everywhere, who even had it ourselves, are watching with horror as people play Russian Roulette with their children’s health. Their lives. Obviously I don’t think they want their children to be disabled or to die from a virus, but they are ignorant of the seriousness of these illnesses. Someone on either this thread or another thread referred to measles as an ‘old fashioned’ disease, which kind of sums up a lot of people’s attitude. It’s as if viruses such as measles are gone when they are merely suppressed due to the vaccination programme. Sadly, people will only wake up when their children are left disabled or worse. I think making school places dependent upon vaccination is a reasonable way forward. Of course there will always be those children who can’t be vaccinated due to illness, but allowances are made in many walks of life for such exceptions.

@Iheartmysmart @MightyDandelionEsq I take your point about politeness and the professional should certainly not be aggressive - what use is it going to be? It will only alienate people.

But having had some conversations with extreme anti-vaxxers, and having worked with people disabled by polio and measles, I simply can't escape the conclusion that many of the middle class anti-vaxxers are naive, hoodwinked, egotistical, certain they know better than trained and experienced researchers, and frankly I wonder if some are mentally ill. Certainly they are dupes, and it's their children who suffer.

(Not at all including people who struggle to understand or access vaccinations due to language / immigration / accessibility issues).

Nothing you say or do gets through to the anti-vax religionists. It seems to be a cult.

Looks like some kids will be banned from school but I suspect the numbers wont be high enough

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c99jyexve1jo

See that is mitigated by the fact that chikdren have to be in schooling in these countries. By law. Where I am from you can home educate but your kid still has to regularly go in for exams to make sure they are actually being educated. There are rules like parent's minimal education, have to work with your local primary/secondary (because they are enrolled there) and actually have to have a reason to have to do it. It is strict but for a reason. To protect kids. I think only one who doesn't do home schooling in EU at all is Germany.

All my children are vaccinated but I do feel that I just went along with the vaccination programme as I didn’t really know that there was the opportunity not to, I wasn’t educated about the diseases or the vaccines. I’m pro choice on everything so long as it’s an educated decision being made. My middle daughter is ANA to peanuts and whilst it’s not a direct link, having researched it there’s far more children in the vaccinated western world with food allergies since the national immunisation programme was rolled out than in other third world counties. That said, I’ve continued in her later life to make sure she is vaccinated for HPv and others etc as I’ve been sensible enough to do my own research into the fors and against of both vaccinating and not. I think the anti vaxxers may have a point with some of their ideologies but not all. The COVID saga really proved their point in a lot of ways and did nothing for the opinion of the general population.

Fingers crossed the government will no longer allow children to gain admission to state schools if they are unvaccinated unless medically exempt.

Interesting. I agree policies need to put children first not adults distorted views first

Privilege. Plain and simple.

I'm interested to know if you'd be happy for people to exercise their educated choice to eat peanuts on a plane with your daughter on it.

Because people who don't vaccinate their children are spinning the wheel on whether other children will die, not just their own.

It erodes trust. The news about Depo Provera wont have helped either Yes i know its not a vaccine. But its been around for decades and now linked to brain tumors I took this for five years. Ditto the mini pill also carries this risk which i have taken for four and a half years.

Zantac Ranitidine which i took for many years was taken off the market after nearly forty years, because of cancer causing carcinogens

No I wouldn’t because if they were educated enough to eat nuts around a child with severe ANA they would know that at 35,000ft over an ocean for example my daughter has 4 EpiPens that will each give her a 20 minute time slot to seek medical attention before her airways are restricted and she stops breathing. But I guess if they are educated enough to be able to perform a tracheotomy at 35,000 ft I would be open to them being educated enough to decline a packet of peanuts for one day.

@BeMellowAquaSquid can you really tell me why, if people should be free not to take the MMR, they shouldn't be free to eat peanuts around your daughter?

Because surely when it comes down to it, if people are willing to happily risk children's lives and severe disabilities, why should one be acceptable and not the other?

There's a lot of pussy footing around 'free choice' but if you're going to be a free-choicer - be one. "Not when it comes to my child" doesn't cut it.

They can eat nuts around my daughter all they like I never said that they couldnt. Person below asked would Ibe ok on a plane with it answer is no. If you’re asked politely by a parent or an airline to refrain from eating nuts because you’ll cause the death of a child that you’re sitting in close proximity to and you choose to eat those nuts rather than taking note of the polite warning it’s tantamount to murder. But I guess you have experience and are well educated on this.

My dad was left deaf by measles as a baby. I’m trying to imagine his face if I told him that I’d decided not to vaccinate my kids.

As PPs have said, unfortunately vaccines are a victim of their own success. We don’t see the damage caused to children by these illnesses because vaccines are so effective, and non-vaccinating parents probably see the risk of vaccine damage as higher than the risk of the disease because the disease is so uncommon. Except, obviously, it won’t remain uncommon if not enough people vaccinate their kids, and then we’ll see quite quickly that the rate of illness damage is much higher than that of vaccine damage.

I dread to think how many more unnecessarily measles-damaged kids we’ll see if we don’t pull our socks up, as a society. Or worse, if the vaccine scepticism spreads to cover other vaccines, like the 6 in 1. Whooping cough? Diphtheria? Polio?

It horrifies me.

@BeMellowAquaSquid well yes exactly. It is tantamount to manslaughter (never mind your snide comment).

But when 90% of people exposed to measles catch it, and 1 in 1000 is left with severe - not light, severe - disability or death, so is not getting vaccinated.

You've said you got your children vaccinated, so you and your children will not be in that group that spread this lethal disease. But so many people now are.

Personal choice is a valuable thing, but when people live in and benefit from the advantages of a social group then certain restrictions need to be accepted, for the health of the whole group. The price of measles is too high.

@BogrollMcChips whooping cough vaccination rates are actually rising after an outbreak a while ago.