Here’s how a child dies of measles

[Shuffletoesxtreme]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/

60 cases in London, where vaccinations are lowest in the country.

But that’s not true though is it? The MMRV showed a higher rate of febrile seizures in those aged 12-23 months. Yes it’s not a massive increase but that’s just what they’re currently aware of.

Anyway that’s my bit done for questioning vaccines. I will continue to read up on arguments for both sides, which as parents, not scientists, that’s all we can do. It’s a hot topic at the moment and rightfully so.

Keir Starmer has just come out and told us to all get vaccinated so that’s enough to put me off!

Wishing everyone’s families the best of health.

As the parent of 2 children who have had febrile seizures, unrelated to vaccines, those are the prime ages for them to occur regardless of the cause. It tends to happen the first time a child has a sudden fever spike which generally occurs when they pick up toddler illnesses.

Febrile seizures are frightening to the parents, but harmless. They're very much preferable to leaving your child exposed to a serious illness.

No one has denied the small increase. The point is that febrile seizures are harmless and measles causes far more of them.

Scary sounding things can put parents off vaccinating at all so better they vaccinate late than never.

It really is quite simple and logical when you think about it.

For avoidance of doubt, it most certainly is, true, as the posts below the one I am quoting have explained. No one has denied the small increase in harmless (though scary to watch) febrile seizures statistically associated to the MMRV vaccine in babies and toddlers.

Hence the recent change.

And, in case it's comforting to anyone, my febrile seizure children have gone on to Oxbridge and an Ivy League university and have no memory whatsoever of the episodes. DH and I are still a bit traumatised, though 😅

I am sure that was intended as a joke but you reveal yourself with your quip about Starmer .

Joe Public - that's you and I - don't know how to interpret that data property, which is why we rely on scientists to do so.

How do I know this? Because I started medical science at university before switching. There's a lot of work and a lot of training involved to correctly interpret data and studies which medical and scientific research produces.

Yes, we can access it and read it. Yes, we might correctly interpret some of it, but unless you've been educated to understand medical research and scientific data,you're effectively going in blind.

Febrile seizures, by the way, are fits from a temperature. Febrile = running a temperature

Many toddlers get them, they're very frightening for the parents but ultimately harmless. That said, it's important to have them checked out by a doctor to ensure that that is what they are and not something more serious.

A high temperature from measles is very dangerous. If measles doesn't cause death it can cause a number of serious disabilities such as deafness and brain damage.

If parents don't want to vaccinate their children, fine but they should keep their child away from others who may not have reached the age to have both vaccinations yet, such as baby groups and nurseries.

BTW, we haven’t mentioned that parents needn’t need to track what was happening with the MMRV vaccine at all. The NHS picked up on the correlation between the administration of the vaccine and the small increase in febrile seizures and acted accordingly.

Job done.

If you think your disdain for Keir Starmer qualifies as “research” then … I don’t know what to say.

This thread makes me think of a recent experience we’ve had in our family. A relative had heart issues last year, was treated in hospital for a few weeks, then went home to their farm. The condition worsened, resulting in a terrifying emergency evacuation to hospital again. Throughout, her DD was reading up on the condition online and was convinced that everything she’d read meant her mother would die. Absolutely beyond distraught. I was parallel researching everything she sent me, and yes, it seemed dire. The diagnosis, when it came, was nothing like the research. The cause was a reaction to meds, not valves etc. Her mum recovered once they worked around her meds.

The point is, people think they understand “research” but you can’t begin to understand it properly unless you have the full context of years of medical training or scientific understanding.

I have 4 degrees, non medical. I also have a neurological condition. The advice given to me by my neurologist was “don’t go online and read up on it because it will cause you unnecessary stress”. So I haven’t. I’m not stupid, but I’m not trained to interpret a volume of literature. I am also totally fine not knowing.

Why would an accountant, or a hairdresser even begin to think they can have a genuinely informed opinion on vaccines just baffles me. Even more terrifying is the impact their “research” has on the health of their children or public health or public policy.

Precisely. Realising you know enough to see how little you know.

Glad your relative was OK!

1 in 25 children will have a febrile convulsion before the age of 5.
24 extra children in 100,000 will have a febrile convulsion after MMR vaccine.
35 extra children in 100,000 will have a febrile convulsion after MMRV vaccine.
2300 extra children in 100,000 will have a febrile convulsion after a measles infection.

Febrile convulsion fear is not a reason not to vaccinate.

For those interested in the Japanese MMR debate, this is interesting I think:

In 1989, a combination measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine, targeting all children aged 1 to 6 years, was introduced into the National Immunization Program (NIP).1 However, in 1993, due to reports of serious aseptic meningitis following the MMR vaccination, the Japanese government decided to withdraw its recommendation for the MMR vaccine. Ironically, the subsequent incidence of serious aseptic meningitis occurring among unvaccinated patients contracting natural mumps was reported to be as high as 1.24%, whereas the incidence was only 0.05% as a result of the mumps vaccine.2 This decision has become a significant social concern in Japan.

Further reading suggests that MMR in Japan was withdrawn due to concerns about the mumps strain element in the MMR vaccine they had commissioned and developed, which were not the same as UK and USA were using. So rather than investigate and refine the vaccine or source an alternative, they just abandoned it.

Interesting article here:
A distinctive nation: vaccine policy and production in Japan | The Politics of Vaccination: A Global History | Manchester Scholarship Online | Oxford Academic

Speaking of varicella, I have been trying to get the Shingles vaccine. The NICE guidelines say I should be given it due to my age and health conditions but my GP says my record isn’t flagged for it. 🙄

You can ring the surgery and request it. I got mine in October.

Only if you're eligible, but sometimes eligible people aren't coded properly so don't show as being eligible. It's complex and criteria is strict and tight! It usually needs a manual eligibility code adding after reviewing the record.

It cost the NHs a fortune to treat my occular shingles including monthly optometrist appointments for over 6 months. The chance of getting shingles again is slightly higher than if you haven’t had it. I’m not eligible for the vaccine due to not being quite old enough. Just on grounds of cost effectiveness you would think ice be offered it, but no. May have to try and afford it privately because I do not want that to happen again.

Very sorry to hear this.

I really don’t understand the NHS access to preventative medicine. It restricts access to flu, Covid and shingles vaccine more than any other country I have lived in. You would think that on the grounds of cost effectiveness alone, a more lenient policy is more sensible - to say nothing of minimising human suffering.

Exactly @poetryandwine . I get that for some illnesses and some people the cost/benefit analysis would rule against vaccination but when I’ve shown what shingles can do to my particular body I’d have thought it would be prudent to stop it happening again!
I also think the age for flu and covid vaccinations should drop. Over 60 things do hit harder.

You can ask your GP to authorise the vaccine out of schedule, it can be considered on a case by case basis.

I have considered dropping an email to see if I can persuade them. Maybe I will.

You absolutely should. I advised my sister to do this as she previously had shingles in her 50s which was incredibly painful, and she contacted her GP and got a booking. She's 70.

At 70 you are eligible. I’m 61 so not eligible. I might try to convince them though.