Here’s how a child dies of measles

[Shuffletoesxtreme]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/02/child-dies-measles-vaccines/685969/

60 cases in London, where vaccinations are lowest in the country.

The UK Government pays out hundreds of thousands pounds worth of compensation every year in vaccine damages. Its all freely available information on the uk Gov website.

My children are vaccinated btw.

The narrative that anti-vaxxers and those suspicious of vaccines, use, which is that X only harms if the patient had other medical problems is used to deflect responsibility but at the same time, it disparage the patient in question.

For example, when you say that the only person who died of measles had other medical conditions, you imply - if not outright state - that the thing which killed them wasn't the measles but their other medical condition. This is fundamentally incorrect and wildly flawed logic.

It's selfish, too, because it attempts to absolve the person who hasn't had their children vaccinated from the guilt of (a) putting their children at risk and, (b) putting others in serious danger.

Thirdly, it reduces the patient to someone who doesn't matter. Again, it's implied that it doesn't matter if that person died from measles because they had other health problems and therefore were somehow worth less than other people. Such thinking moves us into the realm of eugenics.

My point is - no-one ever talks on these threads about vaccine damage yet the uk government pays out hundreds of thousands every year in compensation. The parents of children affected by this are shouted down - here on mumsnet.

I remember when mumsnet hosted a vaccine Q&A with a medical expert and one of the mums who joined was the mum of two disabled children who took part in the Wakefield trial, she was shut down horribly and I called Justine @ mumsnet out on this, she was online and taking part in the chat - its like parents with a bad experience of vaccines aren't allowed to talk about it.

Just to repeat my kids are vaccinated. And I suspect its the pharma companies who profit from this.

For someone who likes facts you seem keen on random, vague assertions.

so 1 in 1000 children according to your figures die of measles and not of related illnesses, how many in 1000 children due to vaccination complications?

So, which are you talking about? How much the government pays out in vaccine damage compensation every year? Or how many children die due to vaccine complications? You're jumping back and forth between the two. At least decide which anti-vaxx narrative you want to put out.

Do your own research. Break down those numbers and post them.

And I suspect its the pharma companies who profit from this.

I'm no defender of a lot of practices of pharmaceutical companies, but a little common sense can go a long way.

In 2022, pharmaceutical companies reported $605 billion in revenue. Of that revenue, just $1 of every $12 was from vaccines.
Here is another way to think about this: people take most medicines long-term, so pharmaceutical companies can rely on selling multiple doses per person. But vaccines, even those given in a series of doses, are given once (or once per year for vaccines like flu and COVID-19). For instance, the cost of the three hepatitis B vaccine doses kids need totals $81 ($27 per dose). But the cost of hepatitis B medication to treat hepatitis B infection is roughly $11,500 annually. Pharmaceutical companies make more money from medicines that treat diseases than from vaccines that prevent them.
Pharmaceutical companies do make money from vaccines, but less than they do from medicines that treat cancer and diabetes. Other companies that make products to prevent injuries, like car seats and bike helmets, also make money from those products. These companies have costs, like labor, parts, and staff. Pharmaceutical companies are no different.

Vaccine damage is thankfully rare compared to the numbers of people who safely receive vaccines. That's not to minimise the effect on their lives, nor is it to say that it's wrong for parents to question how safe a vaccine is, but we've gone very very wrong somewhere when so many parents believe it's safer for their children and other people to contract serious diseases such as measles rather than take a vaccine.

@oneoneone having worked for an international pharma company who supports vaccines, everyday pharma drugs, cancer drugs etc for over five years I can assure you they have the best intentions however the financial models are a bit more complex than you gave in your example.

So you worked for an international pharma company for 5 years and claim to understand their financial models and yet

And I suspect its the pharma companies who profit from this.

Either you understand their financial models and can explain them here, or you don't, but have suspicions.

Which is it?

@oneoneone the whole bizarre anti-vax movement makes me wonder why, given the appalling possible consequences. The only answer came from good friend who has in effect lost her sister to a doctor who is a leader in the anti-vaxx movement here in the NL. She's met him herself several times.

She says he's charming, charismatic, persuasive and well off. His acolytes, including her sister, adore him and wont hear a word against him. She thinks it's ego first and foremost, and secondly he gets donations "to help fight the evil of big pharma".

I’m a 64 baby and was vaccinated for measles. Not as a baby, but later.

Some doctors have said that the complications from measles, meaning those who are hospitalised, originally reported as 1 in 1000, is more realistically 1 in 100,000 today. Given that only 1% of vaccine injuries are actually reported, I think it’s worth researching vaccines.
There is a reason why so much research and testing is currently being undertaken.

Bear in mind that the MMR has been banned in some countries.

Again, everyone is doing what they think is right. Researching things doesn’t label you or make you a conspiracy theorist.

Which countries have banned the MMR vaccine @Twelve8Ts?

Funny, the WHO, the CDC, Statista, UNICEF, the NCIH and all other reputable sources say that for under 5's who get measles, between 20 - 50% need hospitalisation. Currently. As in, now, today.

Who are these 'some doctors' you speak of? Same sort as back street abortionists? Self-awarded titles?

Which countries have banned it? Some paused it (and Japan had a nasty outbreak leading to tens of children dying for a time), but imported separate vaccines instead that covered the same diseases, and those pauses have apparently long been lifted.

What ongoing safety research do you refer to, other than the standard monitoring which has come up with nothing new in many years?

Your 'questions' and 'statements' are deceptive, misrepresentative and dishonest, pushing a vicious agenda. Why do you get off on trying to create an environment where children die needlessly?

@BedtimeBrainFog

"
Every country in the world includes the first dose of measles vaccine in their national immunization programs. Nearly all countries also include the second vaccine dose. "

https://www.cdc.gov/global-measles-vaccination/about/index.html

Japan delivers the vaccine in a slightly different form, but it -is- delivered. @Twelve8Ts is misrepresenting a great deal.

It is a fine thing that trained scientists and doctors continue to monitor and research vaccines. As discussed upthread, individuals without advanced scientific training really aren’t equipped to do meaningful research in this area.

No country has banned vaccination against M, M and R. Japan has swapped the combined vaccine for separate vaccines.

Complications comprise more than hospitalisation, or do you not think being left deaf is serious?

If you’re genuinely interested to know, I did look it up.

According to UK Parliament published data from March 2022 to November 2025 there were 249 successful awards under the Vaccine Damage Payment Scheme (VDPS).

Of those, 246 related to Covid vaccines.

I’ve separated out COVID because it was a mass, fast-tracked emergency rollout given to tens of millions of people in a very short period of time. Lumping it together with decades old routine vaccines isn’t an honest comparison.

That leaves 3 successful awards for all other vaccines combined over nearly four years.

Each VDPS award is a fixed lump sum of £120,000. So saying payouts are in the ‘hundreds of thousands” may be technically correct but without case numbers it’s very misleading.

Actual published figures with linked sources.

Yes, trained scientists do the research and the data is then published and available to read. I don’t understand your point?

And yes, that’s what I’m referring to. Japan discontinuing the combined vaccine due to the meningitis cases linked to the Mumps component.

And again yes, hearing problems would obviously be referred to a hospital.

Thanks for the link.
I suspected as much.
It’s becoming increasingly clear to me that the ‘do your own research’ crowd doesn’t always extend that research to checking primary or verifiable sources

As a small child my husband was in hospital for 3 months with measles.
I know someone who was left deaf by it.
I had measles when I was 5 and remember it vividly - it was horrible but left no lasting scars except the memory of it.
We made sure our son had the MMR jabs.

Really? You said countries. Not singular, and you failed to mention that Japan does indeed give the measles vaccine.

Can you bring yourself to acknowledge that all reputable sources that have kept track of measles outbreaks say that between 20-50% of under 5's are hospitalized?

Rather different to your claim that 1 in 100,000 are hospitalized, no?

Your post of 18.39 ended with the statement thar ‘Researching things does not make you a conspiracy theorist.’

My statement about the inability for lay people to do meaningful research referenced this. No, the attempt may not make you a conspiracy theorist, but unless you have rigorous training and a team of critical colleagues - critical of you and your assumptions, whatever they may be - you will almost surely fall victim to unconscious bias. The need for internal challenge is a main reason most science is done in teams.

The US Centers for Disease Control (American spelling) reported on 9 May 2024 that 1 in 5 Americans unvaccinated Americans who contract measles require hospitalisation. An impeccable source, and as someone who used to live there I assure you that in America this means a hospital admission, not something like seeing a consultant as an outpatient for hearing complications.

Are you telling us that unvaccinated British bodies react differently to measles?

Japan does not give the MMR, it gives the MR. If it’s not giving the mumps component it’s not an MMR is it. They are given separately. I am talking about the combined vaccine.

In September the advice was announced not to give the MMRV before 4 years of age due to the risk of febrile seizures.
So are you still saying that people that question combined vaccines need not do so?

@Twelve8Ts the MMRV schedule wasn’t changed because it’s dangerous. It was changed to manage parent anxiety. A tiny increase in febrile seizures sounds scary even though they’re short, harmless fever fits with no long-term effects. Health bodies decided it was better to avoid spooking parents and potentially risking kids not being vaccinated at all.

That’s it. That’s the reason.

And crucially, measles itself causes far more fever seizures, hospitalisations and serious complications than the vaccine ever does. This has been explained upthread, including actual stats on potential febrile convulsions from the vaccine vs actually catching measles.

So yes, people questioning combined vaccines can be reassured. The real risk comes from catching measles not from preventing it.

Presenting policy tweaks as proof of danger is misleading.

This advice was given from an abundance of caution. Febrile seizures are not serious but they are understandably terrifying for parents.

Now I too am curious about your sources for your statement at 18.39 that the ‘realistic’ risk of complications from measles is ‘more like 1 in 100,000’. As the CDC says 20% of unvaccinated Americans typically require hospitalisation, do you not appreciate that this is likely to be true in the UK also?

Cross post with @BedtimeBrainFog