Name a better trio than Onion, Garlic & Ginger - Trump Thread #155

[Spandauer]

Blood clot, Announcement, Champagne.

(Shamelessly stolen from @Justsaynonow 's
post on the last thread)

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5482659-whatever-atrocity-is-next-trump-thread-154

There are people who have walked hundreds of miles to vote. It's a little whiny to suggest first world problems are somehow disenfranchising. Especially when there are mechanisms available to mitigate the situation with the tiniest bit of forward planning. I may be UK-centric here, but postal and proxy voting are available where needed.

Personally, I can easily see a suggestion to cancel elections where the turnout is persistently below (for example) 50% going down very well in certain areas.

Use it or lose it.

US Soybean farmers are toast. No one is going to buy from them again - especially as other countries have moved so fast.

When our descendants document this period in 2126, they will note that it's funny how much was in place in 2024 that allowed for a lot less disruption than would have been expected. And the various data plotting 2010-2030 will show that a lot of deals, negotiations and strategies were started 2016-2020. Do you really think that multi-billion dollar deals being announced were cobbled together in months ?

Oh, I get it, but I also understand why people my kids' age look around, see politicians of the generation that has fucked it all for them, taking money from a PAC that's paying them to support what they see as genocide, and decide to sit this one out.

You do wonder what the people whose votes would have stopped Hitler was said to what were left of their children in 1945 ?

I'm not arguing with you, but I can also see why so many people are disaffected.

I think in situations where people walk miles to vote it's often because they're looking for a huge change. I think we have to understand that people who have lived in relatively democratic countries, where the circumstances of their lives have been pretty indistinguishable no matter who's in power, are going to be differently motivated. I mean, I've seen better days, but to people in their late 20s, it's pretty much all the same. And if you're motivated by morality, well, it's pretty effing hard to look away from the Dems taking money to support Israel.

And it's easy to say. One of my DCs lives in a place where ICE has been surging and is involved in a bunch of community initiatives, such as escorting children to school and delivering food. And I can promise you, that no matter what you think, sitting here, when you get videos of your child squaring off against masked, heavily armed thugs, the reality feels a lot more alarming than the theoretical.

We're never going to find any middle ground here. People choosing not to vote - often the majority - are the reasons we get Brexit and Trump.

Did anyone not wonder why atrophy and apathy are so close together in the dictionary ? In the right order too. I mean it's almost like a sign from God.

Right, but we can still try to understand why younger voters aren't turning out. I mean, my kid is literally out there when not at work, facing off against ICE, so I don't think you can say they're apathetic. But I can say, they will only vote for Dems with a great sense of reluctance.

Here we are, yelling about the end of democracy and norms, and there go the dems, saying, well, maybe we should cooperate, be bipartisan. We could agree to fund ICE if only they have scannable ID... Why trudge out through the snow and subzero temps after a long day at work to vote for that?

Just for a start, they're the ones whose jobs are under threat from AI and we're asking them to vote in yet more politicians without the teeth or the understanding to regulate it. We voted in a Labour government without the teeth to do what's right for younger generations by telling the truth about Brexit and the economy.

It's clear that the system isn't working for a lot of people, including younger ones, and we look away from that at our peril.

On top of everything you've listed @user3398721 , there's also the fact that voter suppression is being very actively used.

I don't mean just wrongly removing voters from the electoral roll, but rather persuading people whom a party is confident wouldn't vote for them anyway, not to vote at all. Or to vote third party.

One method has been the drop of dubious information at the last possible moment (eg Hillary Clinton's emails, the dump of hacked files before a French presidential election), to generate Fear Uncertainty and Doubt just long enough to cause hesitancy on polling day – before the contents of the drop can be processed and largely debunked.

Another method is to generate social media purity spirals and virtue signalling: "I'm not going to sully my hands by putting a cross for any of them". Such campaigns rarely acknowledge that not voting does NOT mean that no government gets elected, or that by not voting AGAINST a party you particularly dread you may have actively assisted it into power. Instead, the campaigns encourage voters to remain pure, abrogate responsibility... and then whine about the actions of whichever government gets in.

Etc etc.

Another interesting little thing I heard recently - I can't remember if it was Ruth Ben-Ghiat or Anne Applebaum, but it was one of the authoritarian experts (a shame they're so front and centre these days). She said that the one thing that every authoritarian regime has had in common is that they've come to power in a country, time and place where young adult men couldn't afford to move out of their parents' houses.

Should be food for thought, anyway.

I missed a vote once. The Brexit vote, assuming that "it won't matter just once, only loons would vote for something so stupid". I will never miss another. Not that it would have made a difference in this area which was about 60% against leaving but, even so, it feels like my fault.

Nah.

China (both of them, though one is not authoritarian any more), Cambodia, Myanmar, Vietnam, Cuba, USSR....

Up the revolution,

Then there are the theocratic states. Saidi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan.

Post colonial dictatorships too, usually involving a coup. Iraq, Zimbabwe, Uganda.

That nasty old (lots of rude descriptors available) Robert Heinlein stated that you should always vote; even if there was nobody on the ballot you wanted to vote for, there was sure to be someone you wanted to vote against.

He phrased it more elegantly, because writing was his trade, but that was what it amounted to.

Strategic voting has always been a thing, but it is now a recognised thing and there are websites devoted to it at every election.

There is a saying: "The greatest trick the devil played was making people think he didn't exists".

It's a variation on the sentiment that the greatest trick the establishment pulled off was creating the idea that you can only vote for candidates whose every thought, feeling and view you agree with. Which is the electoral equivalent of having a house on fire, but rejecting fire engine after fire engine because they don't have a prime number in the registration plate.

Democracy is very much like walking down a street. You need to show confidence, walk upright and demonstrate that you aren't a pushover.

Ach, voting is such a first world thing :-)

I have not voted for years. I used to vote, I don't think I missed any. Now I can't. A quote I heard comes to mind, can't remember who said it " The people who stand for election, and who want to be leaders, are actually the last people you want to be leaders".

I want the Holy Grail method.

" I told you. We are an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. "

It would have taken a relative handful of people to vote Remain and the outcome would have been reversed.

And unlike FPTP ballots, every vote did count.

How are finding regretting at leisure ?

Very droll.

The best - in fact in the UK, the only - way to vote is after your existential red lines, find the party/candidate who you least disagree with. If politics is working properly that should vary over time.

The worst way to vote is to always vote for a party as if they are a football team. Because that's how the Tories ended up shafting permaTory voters before all else.

I mean once you have their vote uncritically why would you ever lift a finger to do anything for them ?

I don't think I've ever missed a vote, maybe when I was a bit transient and didn't know it was happening, but if I know, I go.

I don't 100% agree with an of the parties, so I'm a tactical voter.

At our last (local) election Reform put a flyer through our front door so I made sure I went just so I could vote for someone else.

DH missed it because he was busy and forgot, I said if they win by 1 vote you're getting a slap 🤦

I've never missed a vote.

When I was at Uni I voted in local elections at home and Uni as well as the GLC and ILEA ballots. West Midlands Mayor, Police Commissioner - you name it.

By the same token, the undecided or independent voters confuse me. Because how can someone decide at the last minute, based on evidence, that Trump is the best choice.

I can counter your lifetime affiliated voters. If you are 100% single party, and you are not happy, then don't vote. The dems know this. It's not the vote that means they win, as such. It's encouraging them to make the effort to vote. They need the turnout So they need to find a candidate worth voting for.

The repugs would turn out to vote for a slug.

One thing I would like would be to get a slip of paper or something then you vote, as a proof that you did vote. And a few of them should be needed to qualify to stand in elections. And maybe for certain political functions, such as canvassing. Some thought needed for 18 yr olds ( or 16 ? ), who want to stand.

Due to alleged 'wide spread' fraud, particularly by the Somali community. I know there was fraud but I have no idea how truly widespread it is. Also mentioned is Gov Walz's 'inability' to prevent fraud.

I do agree that fraud should be pursued vigorously and punished severely. But this is doing nothing but hurting ALL people on Medicaid regardless of their colour. It will especially hit the children of uninsured parents. And that's what this is intended to do; hurt voters and point the finger at Democrats.

Dearie me! It was a 'Bay of Pigs' situation. Although I doubt we'll find any involvement by the US Govt.

But this is doing nothing but hurting ALL people on Medicaid regardless of their colour.

Which is exactly what is intended.

Trumps admin gets worse.

Casey Means: Takeaways from surgeon general nominee’s Senate confirmation hearing | CNN

Surgeon General. An influencer, whose medical license is lapsed.

"At one point, she sparred with a senator over the benefits of flu vaccination, dodging repeated questions on whether she thinks it’s effective against hospitalization and death."

"Along with her brother Calley, who serves as an adviser to Kennedy at the US Department of Health and Human Services, Means has championed healthy eating, limited pharmaceutical use and alternative remedies. Means is also a co-founder of a health tech company, Levels, that connects glucose monitors to a health tracking app on users’ phones."

"Means dropped out of her medical residency program, and her Oregon medical license is inactive. Means acknowledged on Wednesday that her license is not active and she cannot write a prescription. She said she has no plans to reactivate her license."

"Democrats, meanwhile, questioned the nominee on her stance on birth control, which she has characterized in podcast interviews as potentially harmful to long-term health."

"As a wellness writer and influencer, Means had endorsed various wellness products including nutrient tests, smoothies and supplements."

What was that I said above ? That the people who want the power are the very ones that should not have it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-02-24/us-treasury-gains-fizzle-with-key-yield-hovering-near-4-level

I will never not be astounded by the US attitude towards medicine and health care.

I find it incredible that a rich society is happy to let money dictate access to healthcare.

Individuals and society suffer hugely a result. And now you have a bad actor in the WH he is using it to attack perceived enemies. I mean WTaF?