Why would one family have so much neurodivergence

[telewubbies]

I’m autistic, my son is autistic, my sister has quite profound learning difficulties and asd, my other sister has adhd, two of her kids have adhd, I’m sure my mum also has adhd. My brothers ds is autistic and he himself is most likely undiagnosed as he’s always had his ways !

Do you think alot of families are like this ? It just seems every one of us has something and it seems like alot.
Obviously it’s a genetic thing but I wonder what actually causes those genetics?

That's like saying 'I know brown eyes are genetic, but what is it that causes that gene to make the eyes brown?'

Think of it like a computer program with each gene as a piece of code. There's a piece of code for eye colour, a piece of code for skin tone, a piece of code for the shape of your earlobes etc. There are also pieces of code for the way your brain functions.

How does that work when many autistic children present very differently from their parents or even from each other?

I was diagnosed at 13 with bipolar (Im not i was overwhelmed) and was given Prozac for years. Then told I was BPD despite not having the symptoms of BPD. Turns out I am just audhd so they always knew something was a problem, just didn’t know what

i think that is a very common scenario

To reverse the question, does anyone know of any families where ND is not genetic? Also does genetic mean the parents have to have it or can it be passed in DNA from a NT parent? So like a granduncle / cousin could have it?

My DSs both have autism, dh has adhd and I think his sister has undiagnosed autism too, or at least some ND. But there is no suggestion of it being in my in laws at all. To be fair I don't know the wider family well and many of them have passed away, but Dh is not aware of anything when he was growing up. I don't believe there is any on my side of the family, but I don't have a full genetic background due to adoption.

If it was learned behaviour I’d love to know who my two sons learned their mind blowing maths skills from when I can’t even pass a GCSE in maths despite studying for it on and off for 30 plus years 😂🤷🏼‍♀️. In our family Ira very much that females are leagues better with language acquisition, reading and comprehension but boys tend to thrive with maths. One of my nephews is 10, in a special unit as he basically has southerners with letters and can’t retain information. He is only just starting to be able to recognise cat/bat/pat type words but he can do long division and maths problems that I can’t even retain. I qualified with my degree and masters with the goal to be an English teacher but I can’t get the maths gcse to get on the course.

Have you ever had genetic testing ?
My son us severely autistic with severe learning disabilities, he has a rare chromosome disorder thought to be the underlying reason for his disabilities, in his case it was De novo but they can be inherited and how they impact a person can vary massively from person to person.

It definitely runs in families but also there are other factors at play.

I like things done a set way, the kids have to tidy up before they get out more toys, we have very clear rules and boundaries at home, we are on time and never late, hate change, I hate imaginative and small world play. Does that mean my kids act in a particular way? Of course. There are lots of ways a ND parent influences their children just by being them.

Also if you are assessing a child you being to see ND everywhere. That's why some families seem to have lots, they are looking.

That is not to minimise ND, oh it's there but it's more there if you are looking.

I would also agree that ND are drawn together. I mean imagine me with someone carefree and spontaneous?! We are incompatible.

There’s a lot of ND in my family too. I assume because it can be genetic. My youngest seems to have eczema and hayfever and possibly asthma. Her dad has this too. I’m guessing this is linked as well.

I agree. But more than that, there's also behavioural aspects rather than biological in that children observe their parents/elder relatives and will copy their behaviour, so there's also an aspect of "learned/observed behaviour" as well as the biological/genetic aspects. Even at a very low level, if a ND mother/father don't have many friends, don't socialise much, and are generally shy/anxious/quiet people, then that behaviour will rub off on the child/ren as they won't see/observe people socialising, partying, small talk etc. so will think being quiet and potentially "anti social" is normal.

@Pigriver

I would also agree that ND are drawn together. I mean imagine me with someone carefree and spontaneous?! We are incompatible.

Likewise with myself and DH. Neither of us could have had a relationship with more "normal" or NT people when we met in our early 20's (first boy/girl friend each). The idea of going on a date or asking someone out for a date was alien to us both and we simply wouldn't have done it. We did split up for a very short while as I had my head turned by another lad, but it was an absolute disaster and I just couldn't cope with his "normal" behaviour, so we had to split and I went back, tail between my legs, to my first BF (now husband).

It's no surprise that our son is ND as he's just copied how we are and how we behave. Luckily, none of us are too extreme and all three of us have good/demanding professions even though it's very hard at times.

Thinking of our respective parents, it's clear that they were also ND. My father is almost a clone of DH's father in terms of them never socialising outside the family, being 100% committed to the family, doing more than their share of house/child care etc. Likewise our respective mothers were the same, both professional career women, neither socialising outside the family, etc.

All in all, we've been a very "insular" and close family.

Even though our son has moved away and has a very good professional career, he's still not had a relationship (now mid 20's) but wants one, but what he says is exactly the same as what we said in our 20's, i.e. incapable of asking someone out, anxious and stressed about getting close to someone etc.

I don't think any of our family issues are really medical/genetic, I think it's all down to learned/observed behaviour right back to our respective grandparents, and maybe beyond.

Do we all not have though traits of what some clinicians would consider as autism? My DD has just been diagnosed as “high functioning” autism. She can’t stand people chewing, clicking pens, change, and god forbid if you breathe loudly as she will secretly be plotting your death…but don’t we all hate certain noises/issues?

it is most definitely in my family. My brother used to have huge meltdowns, bang his head on the floor, he didn’t speak until he was around 9/10. Pretty sure if he went down the diagnosis route now, he would be ADHD. His son is undoubtedly autistic but never been assessed. And then you have my DD. So two siblings, both with autistic children. I don’t believe I’m autistic but there are noises I can’t stand just like my Dd…so who knows?

You don’t get assessed on the off chance you may be, thats not how it works.

Do we all not have though traits of what some clinicians would consider as autism?

No.

One can carry a gene and not personally display those characteristics, yet pass it on to the next generation.

I doubt very much, however, that anywhere near enough research has yet been done to identify the (probably many) gene variables.

Epigenetics - you may have a genetic predisposition but your environment determines whether autism presents. Lots of great emerging work on retained reflexes, mitochondria, oxygenation, brain gut connection, predisposition to nutrient deficiencies important to brain development, functional disconnection between different parts of the brain and why those neural pathways develop differently. Recently read Robert Melillo’s book Disconnected Kids and found it interesting. ADHD I am aware that various people, such as Dr Gabor Mate, associate this with trauma or disruption at key points in brain development in early years (again thought to be epigenetic so you might have a predisposition but your environment determines).

Re evolution I read an interesting book (can't remember the name) which talks about the v high prevalence of severe autism in the children of high flying Silicon Valley workers. The parent(s) were either high functioning autistic or had traits which made them really really good at their jobs. I guess autism and adhd have survived because some of the traits are incredibly useful for survival, in a way that counterbalances the more disabling manifestations of the conditions.

For a good number of us it went: child diagnosed -> we educated ourselves ln the topic -> realised that actually we were also experiencing these things described in the books / forums / medical questionnaires … and thinking about it, our spouse/parent/sibling as well.
It’s all coming to light now that children are flagged up early, often at school, and we know way more than we did even 15y ago.

That something that also in Dad family - and I and kids also have. It's there in IL families as well - often wondered if there were also links with ADHD in family.

There's a lot that seems to get treated as completely seperate and not related to any other condtions also in family or even in same individual by HCP we meet or bizzare quirks they've never heard of before -then do some reading and there some research suggesting links. I don't think we know enough yet at all.

You sound like my mother with the structure. :-)

The person who diagnosed my DD was looking and suggested that, as the mother of a ND DD, I should also be assessed. I told him it wasn't necessary for me to be assessed as a diagnosis was of no benefit to me. I can definitely see the traits and just knowing there's some ND there helps me understand some things about myself. So yes, other family members do get looked at in light of a diagnosis of other family members. For some that might be useful and explain a lifetime of struggle. For me, formalising it is unnecessary. However, I know in myself, and I know I'd get a diagnosis if I pursued one.

You clearly don't know what anti-social means. It's an actual personality disorder which often involves criminality. Not a dislike of socialising.

I have multiple ND children and they're all different. Generally they are actually very social. Not all of them, but most. Like NT kids, they have different personalities and sometimes very different to their parents. What they do have is an allowance to be themselves, without judgement. If they're social, that's supported. If they are happy with more of their own company, that's supported. Nothing to do with modelling.

Did they ever mention misphonia?

It’s as hereditary as height.

We aren’t surprised when a tall parent has tall children……..

Yes, mine came out of the womb with their traits. The first one has ADHD, like their father. Their personalities were present even before birth. That one never stopped moving. Probably wanted to get out to start climbing everything already.

It isn't always a bad thing though. My brother and I are clearly ASD. I have ADHD. He is dyslexic. My father is dyslexic. My son and granddaughter are both ADHD, ASD, dyslexic.

All of us have done well in life and moved up the financial/class scale. I'm absolutely driven in my work, as is my brother. Not sure WHICH SEN is responsible for that but I'm thankful for it.

We also have dark hair and eyes, both are taller than average. He's a lot more physically robust than me. I take after our mum, he is more like our dad and grandad.

It's just genetics. I'm not banging the 'My SEN is my superpower' drum, but neither do I see our particular traits as bad either. Natural human variation.