Very advanced children

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I just happen to have landed on a bunch of threads by parents with 'gifted' children, and one or two about parents who think their kids are more gifted than they are.

It's reminded me of an 18-month-old I once met, who talked more eloquently than most 7-year-olds can. He had a very enquiring mind, asking intelligent questions (I was at work) and telling me about stuff he'd learned. He could read and was good at arithmetic. He was a little charmer, really, a delight to meet - if somewhat wearing; he never stopped asking questions.

He evidently had the mind of a toddler despite his advanced skills. He was quite physically developed, though still within range for his age. His mother told me her biggest worry was that people couldn't help treating him as if he were older, expecting him to be more responsible or experienced than he was able.

One of my nephews suffered from this as a young child, too - nothing like the prodigy I've just described, but he was verbally advanced due to spending nearly all his time with adults and was also big and strong for his age. Kids shouldn't have to keep telling adults "I'm only three, I can't do that!" but he did have to.

I sometimes wonder how Prodigy Child turned out. His mum said she was prepared for his development to slow down until others caught up, but lifetime prodigies do exist and I don't think they always have an easy time.

Have you known any DC like this? What happened to them? Alternatively, feel free to share about the deluded parents of normal children you have known!

The high IQ could certainly be linked with ND. But as you say just a high IQ doesn't link to success. As I said upthread, confidence and "people skills" are more likely to lead to successful life outcomes.

My son has eleven GCSE's at grade 9 and four A* A levels. I think he's achieved a first in every module at uni. He was doing long division on the white board in Year 1. However he's autistic and was very late to speak so talking early doesn't mean much.

In a way it feels to me (not sure how he feels) like a huge pressure to maintain the grades. I've never pushed him - he's always done as little as he could get away with to get the grades. I suppose it's also because he's autistic and I feel like if he doesn't get a tech job he'll be a bit stuck as there would be a lot of jobs he wouldn't be able to do.

I could read and write stories aged 4, before I went to primary school. This was the 60s so I was read to a lot. No screens etc. Not seen as really out of the ordinary for the time.

They used to, from I’d say around 2000 until about 2015. Used to be a ‘G&T register’ as well as the SEN register, where you’d have to document the provision you had in place for them. Haven’t heard of schools doing it recently, probably because having labelled them they’d have to make some provision for them, which is deeply out of fashion these days. The priority is ‘mastery’ and ‘keeping the class together’, not pushing capable pupils.

Yes I think I'd swap too x

You were out of the ordinary. Also an early reader/writer in the 1960s, I spent my nursery year helping classmates with theirs (at teacher's request). From year 1, another 'advanced' girl and I were given workbooks for older children and told to get on with them. This girl and I didn't like each other, so what could've been an enriching educational detour was annoying and miserable.

Genuinely gifted children often have challenges and @RazedBeds actually sometimes they do need more than standard education. There's more research being done now about how gifted children learn and how sometimes it's different from other children. As an educationalist I'm surprised you don't know that - try looking up Dabrowski.

In honesty I think a lot of 'gifted' children struggle in other ways and it's not a blessing for many of them. Standard education fails them even more than it fails non-gifted children.

My children were quite different as babies / toddlers - both walked & potty trained very early, but one was pretty advanced with his speech whereas the other was much more average. By 3 or 4 both were labelled as gifted at preschool, and recommended to be moved up and miss reception to go straight into year 1 at school. They are now both in a very selective secondary school and labelled as ‘gifted’ in academics and sport. It’s a term I loathe personally, they are clever and sporty and in fairness both on Olympic talent pathways for their favourite sports BUT lots of their friends (being at a school for the gifted) are just as clever, and just as talented in their sports or in music or art (areas which my kids are not so good at). Also people have different strengths - one of my youngest’s friends from his sports team has amazing empathy but academically is below average - he’s therefore not ‘gifted’, but to me he has a real gift for understanding and connecting with other people.

We never tell our kids they are ‘gifted’ but there are some insufferable precious little darlings at their school who are told it constantly by their parents - I don’t think it does them any favours! We praise our children for hard work, effort, resilience and courage etc - all much more important character traits than finding school work easy.

I'd be thinking that 18 months old was actually 4 and the mum was trying to cover something up!

I think gifted and being advanced is always quite narrow. I work with people who are considered gifted. Many can't cross the road safely or use basic software. They'd certainly have no hope with anything that involves practical and spatial intelligence like plumbing.

@ReleaseTheDucksOfWar Oh, come now. I have not at any point said that standard education is sufficient, have I? In fact I have pointed out the impact of the curriculum, inflexible petty academy chains etc on children's wellbeing.

I have said that all children deserve to be nurtured and have a suitable education and disagreed with the idea that that has anything to do with private schools or VAT.

I really don't think that's controversial.

When I was a school governor many moons ago, one of the parents was convinced that her 9 year old daughter was gifted. The headmaster turned to me in a governor’s meeting and said sardonically, “she’s not gifted, just precocious.” My take was that early on it’s hard to tell the difference between the two…

When I was 7 I was in a class with 10 year olds because I was so advanced. I was top of my year in secondary school but but by Uni, I was fairly average, academically lazy and enjoyed partying. I got a 2:1 without trying too hard but I definitely wasn’t a genius anymore. Now I have let my brain rot through years of watching reality TV and not really trying to learn anything new. I know I am lucky to have a relatively high IQ, but I think I was mostly an early developer.

Well said.

Both my DSs talked early. DS1 began at 5 months and DS2 at 7 months. DS1 in particular came across as extremely advanced verbally (in vocab, understanding and conversation…. He asked endless questions), but he also has SpLD, so took a long time to learn to read and write, and has always done under what you would expect in exams (all perfectly respectable, but not straight A stars like you would expect from talking to him). However, he’s outstanding at computer coding, and is at a top university doing CS (contextual offer), with a highly competitive job lined up for when he graduates. So he showed early signs of intelligence, then struggled with reading/writing, but has gone on to excel in a niche area.

DS2 was clearly bright, but not as eloquent as DS1. He is your classic A star student and will hopefully be going to a top university next year.

Oh my, we're having a problem with words now because you've inferred that I believe state-backed schools aren't as good.

Ordinary. Normal. Run of the mill. A taxpayer funded school with nothing particularly unique.

Sometimes all you need is ordinary. It's like car insurance; if you don't need fully comprehensive, you get third party, fire and theft or just third party. You get whatever best suits your needs and compromise where required.

My DH got accepted at two grammar schools. He didn't need it and got on perfectly well at the local bog standard secondary school. He still excelled as he would have done at a grammar school. Although he would have appreciated the extra support, he didn't need it.

Have him ask for interview questions in advance as a reasonable adjustment for ASD. DS (ASD) did this when he was applying for degree apprenticeships and some places said no and some yes. DS got a software engineering degree apprenticeship that he absolutely loves from one of the places that said yes (he works for UKRI).

I'd also recommend he does things outside of his degree that involve teamwork and leadership as these sorts of skills are really useful to be able to talk about at interview. DS was 17 so didn't have any leadership questions but almost every interview had a team work question.

This is interesting. DS1 was always very bright- talking & reading early & very tall for his age. His thirst for knowledge was palpable, but he was a regular kid with hobbies & friends and brothers he doted on.

He was just naturally good at everything including any sport he put his mind to, art, music- teachers described him as a polymath.

He didn't ever study much & got straight As in all exams including Highers & Advanced Highers (Scotland). He's now final year of University studying Maths, & has had straight As throughout. He won't be the top of the year, though, his friend will!

He's completely neuro-typical & loves socialising & clubbing & travel as much as studying, but still has a love of learning.

His brothers were very different: DS2 also showed lots of the same signs early on, but he's very average now - at university too; DS3 has additional support needs.

I do think some kids are just born more academically inclined, & environment nurtures that.

My daughter is pretty smart and frankly bored stiff at school. We taught her all her times tables at the start of P3 and they're still going over them now in P4. But I wouldn't say she's gifted or it's worth us pushing her as I was one of the smartest people in my school and didn't get far.

I got straight As at A-Level and went to Oxford before dropping out as all I did was sit in my room, drink and cut myself. There's more to life than being academically intelligent especially nowadays. Social skills, resilience and creativity will be the skills that are valued in future.

The people who are at the top of my company are very far from being the most intelligent (some of them are pretty thick in all honesty) but the one thing they all have is confidence and great social skills whereas I am super intelligent but a bit of a misanthrope and filled with anxiety on a daily basis.

I'm a big believer in different types of intelligence, like the Howard Gardner theory. I really think society needs to change its attitude towards what we judge as intelligent. I have a family member who did very well academically and has a really good job relating to this area but loses things, gets frazzled easily and can be poor at picking up social cues. I also know people who are sharp as a whistle who didn't do well academically. I think most of us relate to this.

We've all heard stories of average students who thrived in careers, but I think there are also a lot of average students who never had the confidence to pursue their dreams. I hate how academic families push kids into academic 3rd level or professions without thinking what they are good at and what they like. There are a lot of middle class young graduates out there doing low pay admin jobs that they are not particularly good at and feeling shit about themselves but they could have thrived in a trade or a creative job. Personally I think social skills and a positive attitude and work ethic are more important than academic skills. I work with young kids and part of our philosophy is to develop a positive attitude towards learning and to encourage curiosity and perseverance. It would be great to see that philosophy applied throughout the education system.

In primary school (2000s) I was on the gifted and talented. Super intelligent and "gifted". By secondary I burned out, was (still am) depressed and have 0 interest in anything. Managed to fail all my gcses (by choice not because I tried and failed). Did a year at sixth form and failed on purpose too. Went to college did a btec and got a merit. Went to uni a few years later and got a first in my degree somehow. Still very depressed and never really cared about grades though.

One of my DS was in a team in junior school which competed for a very competitive inter school academic type prize which they won. Was thinking about the kids and where they are now. Three are doing the same humanities degree, one at Oxbridge, two at universities one tier down (LSE/Durham type places). The other is doing a stem subject at one of those non RG universities which is better than most RGs. Where they’ll go from here is anybody’s guess but they were bright kids and have done very well in the step into FE.

Great point.

I agree with this 100%

DS is academically gifted, has excellent vocabulary and memory.

But he is a teenager, with raging hormones and can therefore be sulky, rude, careless and make poor decisions. But DH expects so much more from him because he is gifted. He forgets that his frontal lobe is still developing.

My DS actually hates being gifted. He hates feeling singled out by teachers and other adults and feeling like he is the cleverest amongst his peers. He dumbs down in front of his friends because of this.

I try to tell him that it’ll work itself out when he’s older in uni.

I think it must have been slightly later than 2015 as DS was on the G&T register in primary 5 or 6 years ago.

I always thought labelling was awful, glad to see it’s stopped.

There are multiple intelligences and academic is only one. You can be academically gifted but not show it because of a LD. Two of my children were academically exceptional. Why this is praised so much in childhood, I don't know. There are other things, more balanced approaches the the whole individual. It's far more important to be a good person too. Yet teachers and others jump on a child who performs academically and holds them up as a shining star. Once they're adults, you can't usually tell who they are in a crowd.

I've had two highly exceptional kids in academic ways. Due to this, one now has former gifted child syndrome. They acknowledge it didn't come from me but from outside people. The reason it didn't come from me is that I was a gifted child and took a different approach to it with my own kids because of my experiences. Parents of gifted children (gifted, not just bright or highly intelligent), beware.