Vegetarianism/Veganism

[CurlewKate]

Why is Mumsnet so hostile? Just that really…

There have been many threads over the years on Mumsnet where there is great debate about catering for vegetarians and vegans. Some of the attitudes are ridiculous, like ‘Well they don’t cook meat for me when I go to their house’ or Why can’t they just leave aside the bits they don’t want?’ etc. I find it very very strange. I was a vegetarian for many years, then a pescatarian for a few years. The vast majority of people whose houses I went to were fantastic about making sure there was something I could eat. A couple of people were a bit flustered because they didn’t eat vegetarian food - or so they thought, until I mentioned the things I was happy to eat that were sitting in their fridge or cupboard. I do think some people panic a bit, but generally they just want you to be happy. On Mumsnet, the nastiness and vitriol about meat free or plant based diets can be quite shocking. But I do think that people like that are in the minority. Also, I have never met a preachy vegan, but I’m not denying they exist. That’s because I know people who are preachy about other things and it’s either because they are newly converted to it or because they just have a particular personality type. I have a SIL who can’t cope with the fact that people think differently to her, particularly family members. She gets extremely angry if you are not immediately prostrating yourself at her feet with gratitude for the enlightenment she has provided🤣

Do you think its expensive to be vegan then?
Superdrug own brand is cruelty free and so are alot of the supermarkets.
As for food I think the majority of long term vegans have already realiesed that its far cheaper to cook whole foods (cheaper then a meat eating diet too). UPFs tend to be more of a gateway food to transition people away from their regular junk.

Personally I just watched all the documentaries one day and realiesed that I was being a complete dick by killing animals (which I supposedly loved) for no real reason at all.
How healthy I am now in comparison makes me think I was right too!😀

I don’t understand why people are saying being vegan is expensive.

How do you define your own veganism? For me it’s a philosophic belief, not just a diet. But I guess even Christians cherry pick which bits they believe. Cherry pick away if you want to but I then reserve the right not to consider that vegan.

My Daughter is veggie and has always had a positive reaction. I think might be perceived as rather dogmatic…

Vegans might be perceived as dogmatic I think….

I would say the majority of ‘preachy’ vegans are just defending themselves. It does annoy me when people say ‘oh we just all have different diets choices is all’ because it’s not about diet for vegans. Food is the easy bit and to reduce it to just a diet is insulting. Like reducing a religion to ‘just not eating bacon’.

This is a subtly unpleasant reaction that is quite common and in most cases directed at a vegetarian/vegan who hasn't preached at all.
I believe most people (it's not just on MN) are annoyed by vegetarians/vegans because they automatically feel criticised about their own decision to eat meat.
It's part of a wider picture: many people feel criticised and threatened by other lifestyles.

I am vegetarian!

I'm more than happy with your opinion of me (even though you don't know my principles).

This type of comment is exactly what people mean about vegans being preachy and telling everyone that they think they're morally superior.

It's hard to believe this isn't a joke but here we even have one who thinks that they are a better type of vegan than another vegan!

Get over yourself. You have made a choice about what you do and don't eat - that's all. Whether you have tried to attach your dietary choices to a belief system in order to make it seem more important and more deserving of respect is irrelevant. It's simply a choice. You eat plants, I eat meat. Both choices and both equally valid. Neither better than the other.

I don't care, never have. Family and friends who are both, just eat what you want. However, I don't get those who preach, sneer or make a big deal of their choices, whatever they are and although rare, I did work with someone who mock gagged at others lunches and it got so she was warned to not do so! Share space nicely is my motto and that includes the dinner table.

You’ve just confirmed what I was pointing out about other people telling vegans it’s just about food. Bullshit. Look at your dog or cat and tell me you haven’t eaten them just because it’s not part of your diet. You wouldn’t tell a Muslim or other religious person they have no right to their views and it’s just about ‘diet choice’. Again you’ve had to reinforce that it’s a ‘diet choice’. It’s not a ‘choice’ if you’re an animal lover.

Veganism is a philosophical belief and a protected characteristic in law.

I think the issue is that meat eaters seem to want to discuss why you’re vegetarian / vegan. Then the discussion starts and suddenly meat eaters want to question and yes, even criticise.
Perhaps that’s why people think we are dogmatic and preachy, just because some criticise or some simply answer questions. I know a lot though and have been an active member of the Vegetarian Society for a very long time ( to outing to say how long)
I don’t want to discuss my morals every time I sit down for a meal so it’s never me starting or even really engaging in such conversations. I change the subject as it’s no one’s business but mine. I never ask a meat eater why they have chosen to eat meat so would like the same curtesy…thanks

No one’s ever strongly queried my choices though ( perhaps one guy at Uni…I still remember you B…. ) Maybe it’s because I simply dont engage I get off lightly

but I do see a lot of criticism on mumsnet. Perhaps because everyone can hide behind their screens they just let it all out

I have been vegetarian for about 10 years and I am happy with my choice.

I can't say I have had any negativity because of it. I don't preach about it either.

But I must say if someone had a random, hostile reaction to my diet I would not want to spend time with them as I don't put up with intolerance.

Then why did you reply to the OP that no one should preach to anyone else? It sounds like a typical thing a meat eater says. In my experience, vegetarians and to a slightly lesser extent vegans are precisely the ones who don't preach. But they have that reputation because meat eaters often won't let the topic go, and then complain that they're being preached at.

👍 absolutely

Somebody said earlier its the difference between eating meat or eating plants.....thats very much a meat eater pov!
To a vegan though its not 'meat', its something alive with feelings and a personality. Its why its such an emotive topic.
Kinda like a non pet lover telling you 'its just a dog' when to you its much, much more (even though in some parts of the world your cute family pet is just a sandwich filling waiting to happen!).

For me I dont like to preach, as it never really works but Im very happy to hear of any changes people make for the better. Even if its just meat free mondays or going cruelty free.

I am vegan and it's literally just about I choose to eat and not eat and TBH all the other vegans I know are pretty much the same.

It’s only about what you eat? Nothing else? I’m genuinely interested then why you prefer to call yourself vegan and not plant based? Is it because it’s easier?

For avoidance of doubt, here is the dictionary definition:

Veganism is a philosophy and lifestyle that seeks to exclude, as far as possible, all forms of exploitation of and cruelty to animals for food, clothing, or any other purpose, focusing on a plant-based diet (avoiding meat, dairy, eggs, honey) and avoiding animal-derived products like leather, wool, and cosmetics tested on animals. It's a broader ethical stance than just diet, aiming to promote animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans, and the environment.

Vegan here , for the fact I love the animals so don’t eat them
however I am constantly told I’m not a ethical vegan because I have pets ( rescued dogs ) and a horse so I just say I like / love the animals that are in the food chain so do not wish to eat them
my children ( teens and adults ) all eat meat , I would never force anyone to eat or not eat anything

Being a vegan is about choosing to eat plants. In my family there are 2 strict vegans. They don't think being a vegan means they are following a philosophical belief system. They have simply chosen only to eat plant based food. Just a choice, not akin to a religion. In the same way that as I eat meat and animal products I choose to eat free-range and outdoor bred. Just a choice.

I do have a pet cat but I'm fully aware cats are eaten in some places, and if I was starving and eating my pet would keep me alive a bit longer then yes I would.

I do also believe that Muslims/Jews/ other religions choosing not to eat various types of meat or various foods is a choice. There are plenty of people who practise those religions who do eat the foods that strict members of the religion don't. In Britain nobody is going to kill them if they don't follow every part of the religion to the letter. So they are free to make a choice.

“Being vegan is about choosing to eat plants”

It really isn’t. This is like mansplaining from a meat eaters pov.

I actually just messaged one of my vegan family members to ask them what being vegan meant. They replied that it meant they ate a plant based diet, and did not use any animal products in their life, so no leather, no honey. That's it.

I find it incredibly irritating. It annoys the life out of me when my vegan friend, who I love to bits otherwise, comes away with us and every suggestion of any nice restaurant selling authentic local food is immediately met with ‘are there vegan options’ and we can’t go to them if there’s not. No walking around and spontaneously choosing a restaurant because of the vegan options.

Then when there are vegan options complaints that there are only ever vegan burgers on the menu. So we try paella. Complaints that there are only vegan paella is only rice and veg.

Any buffer is met with ‘I need a vegan option’ which is fine, but then it becomes that vegan friend thinks she can order a full meal for herself which no one else is allowed to eat, despite there being vegetarians there.

It takes over everything. And it’s very annoying.