Vegetarianism/Veganism

[CurlewKate]

Why is Mumsnet so hostile? Just that really…

My RL experience matches yours, @CurlewKate but MN introduces me to all sorts of other people.

So, in answer to your question, lots of different reasons. E.g

People’s habits just haven’t given them a view beyond meat and two veg and a ham sandwich. On a Wedding thread this week there were posters who couldn’t even contemplate an afternoon tea without meat. Despite cheese in abundance.

Cooking inexperience

Attitude and personality: taking an alternative view or habit as criticism

There is still, in general, a class / socio economic bias , based in lots of things, including cost/ perceived cost that in turn inform habits.

View of V / Veg lifestyle being woke / urban / trendy / faddy

Also, amidst the general MN of people getting on with their lives, MN, IMO, also includes a high ratio of people who grapple with a range of challenges. Social and a huge range of other anxieties, huge food issues and fussinesses, etc etc. So being relaxed around different diet choices is going to be harder.

Don’t understand….

I’m not that poster but I see it like this-

1. people like to think of themselves as moral
2. people like to eat meat (and use animal products etc- shan’t keep typing this out)
3. to reconcile 1 and 2, people either tell themselves that it’s not immoral to eat meat because [reasons] or avoid considering the morality of eating meat entirely
4. the existence of vegans (and to a lesser extent vegetarians) is a challenge to 3- clearly there are some people who do consider meat-eating etc immoral. This creates a tension- the cognitive dissonance of considering yourself moral while doing something that may be immoral.
5. to resolve that tension, people therefore need to find a way of discounting the views of vegans. For example “all vegans are XYZ”- plenty of examples on this thread.

An uninformed generalisation would be if I'd said "all vegans" when I have quite clearly said "every vegan I have met". I haven't provided a generalised view nor can I be uninformed in sharing factual experience?!

I'm not surprised that you eat few processed foods if you've been following a vegan diet for decades because they didn't exist.

According to the vegan society website "younger generations are significantly more likely to adopt vegan diets than older generations" and 3% of Great Britain follow a vegan diet. So it's not surprising that there are not a high number of mumsnetters who are basing their experiences on vegans like you or indeed large sample sizes of vegans at all.

Every vegan I have met has been preachy, has eaten a diet high in processed, fake foods, and - in my opinion - has been a dick about it. Per my original post, vegetarians totally different. This is my personal and factual experience. No assumptions have been made about people I don't know.

This.

And actually MN has got much better over the years. Most threads are now overall supportive, unless it's about a vegan child.

we have vegetarians in the wider family, Christmas was challenging as the turkey eaters did not want to give that up. It was easy to make a vegetarian substitute , many recipes online. and freeze it. Vegetarian gravy was also provided. Stuffing and vegetables was the same for both.
However, the supermarkets are now stocked with a lot of vegan foods. Unfortunately it is a lot of ultra processed stuff. I rarely (never) see a vegetarian section which is a shame.

I don't care about other people's choice unless they try to convice me to change mine.

I have a vegan colleague, she is lovely and never ever makes herself more superior to us carnivores. Unless you ask her you wouldn't know as she will only say something if prompted or in a positition where she feels its better to disclose it.

When we are going out as a team we obviously check the menu but that's not different to when we take a colleaguewho is coeliac or I go with my best friend who has a lactoce intolerance.

I wouldn't put vegetarians and vegans into the same group. To me, vegetarians are a variation of 'normal' and vegans are just plain different.

When I am catering, I will cater for vegetarians and those with allergies. I like to serve everyone the 'same' meal, as much as practical. I won't use highly processed 'vegan' ingredients (frankenstein foods).

I eat a lot of plant based/ vegan food and it’s probably my healthiest food. Some of you speak as if a lot of meat and dairy products are not processed shit too. Sausages, bacon, salami 😅

Why do you need to cook special vegan ingredients? This is something else I don’t understand.

I don't think it is. I've seen plenty of threads with suggestions for vegetarian and vegan meals.

Plenty of vegetarians/vegans seem to like meat replacement products. I personally think that's rubbish (in thinking and from a nutrion point of view). When we have a BBQ we try to not do non-meat sausages/burgers but I also love my friends and if they bring their own, it goes on the grill (away from the meat and on a separate pan like the veggies and other non-meat stuff)

I am happy to cook a vegan dish if it's easy and nobody dies from not having meat, dairy and eggs once in a while. I must admit, I do find it easier cooking vegetarian though.

Oh well- the vegans I know would only eat processed food if they needed something quick/a convenience meal. Just like the meat eaters I know!

Oh well - the meat eaters I know would never be hostile.

I don’t think people are hostile, I just think that some (not all) are preachy and also they want to call all the shots. I always prepare food as required, check restaurants etc even get in correct wine but I appreciate not being lectured

Who are these 'preachy' vegans? I am a vegan and never feel the need to tell anyone about it, unless it comes up in conversation. What I choose to eat is probably the least interesting thing about me. What I do find very boring and, this happens a lot, is when people find out I am vegan and then start to tell me how much / little meat they eat and how they don't eat red meat / pork etc. I honestly couldn't care less, as I am sure they don't really care what I eat.

MN is very weird about vegetarianism, which is really commonplace these days. I was once told on here that I was being unfair to meat eaters because I wasn't going to provide any meat at a dinner party I was hosting.

But it's ok for you to be a dick about it?

Sorry-don’t understand!

Not sure what you mean? Are you vegan and had hostile responses? 🥴
There’s a vegan board, so meat eaters shouldn’t be on there commenting 🤷‍♀️.

Nobody ahould be bothered about what someone else puts in their mouth or on /in their body.
I don’t eat meat, DH does- we both prepare meals for eachother. DD has a bit of both meals if she wants to. My friends know I don’t eat meat, plus a lot of other things due to a sensitive tummy- they know I’m fussy and they know why 💩😂

I am a vegetarian. I have never "preached" to anyone, but merely ordering vegetarian food in a restaurant sometimes causes the meat-eaters to preach to me!

I put it down to guilt. Or maybe attacking me first in case I attack them.

@redboxer321 😂

Yup, people can get defensive about it and it's easier to label the veggie as a weirdo then face the differences.
I don't bother mentioning it unless it comes up naturally. Was vegan for 7 yrs but I did start eating dairy again this winter. However I've gone back to a vegan diet as I put loads of weight on and it wasn't nearly as healthy for me as a wholefood plant based diet was.

What I don't get is people who don't buy cruelty free products. I mean if you aren't buying those then by definition aren't you just buying stuff with added cruelty!?🤔

People get very defensive about vegans suggesting they are "morally superior". But the truth is, they are morally superior. Their choice not to harm other living creatures is morally superior to the choice to eat meat and use animal products. Many people can't deal with that.

(I'm not vegan, btw.)

But that's not a morally superior choice, it's just a choice.

Humans are designed to be omnivores, we have always eaten some meat and fish. We have always killed animals and birds for food and made clothing and shelter from their skin and bones, and used their innards for all sorts of things. It isn't cruel or wrong to eat meat or animal products.

If you don't want to eat meat then become a vegetarian or vegan. But it doesn't mean that you're a better person for making that choice.

I am absolutely fine with vegetarians…I eat a lot of vegetarian food for my meals anyway. Similarly pescatarians…no issues I love fish. Similarly gluten free , lots of alternatives without gluten

i ove to cook, am a good cook. And love food

but veganism is a complete pain in arse frankly. Maybe it’s because I cook from scratch, but want to make 1 meal everyone whose round the table can enjoy. Similarly the lactose free is a pain- less so than vegan, but a pain

cooking vegan from scratch is complex, involves getting ingredients in that I don’t use normally and then are wasted .

or I can buy the total crap UPF the vegan who visits me the most uses. Cheese and meat substitutes that are full of stuff that shouldn’t be in food (same with lactose free person I cook for often) . I refuse to buy if . My fridge gets tak n over by different milk, butter substitutes, cheese substitutes. I then chase my tail cooking something different from scratch for this person, which is time consuming and expensive and just seems so bloody boring . They’re never particularly enthusiastic about what I make, despite all the planning, time and care I put into it

I also worry about their diet in terms of nutrition. They always seem to have digestive issues, even though that was original driving point to gradually become vegan (they used to eat vegetarian)

im now in situation that out of family of 6 adults, that maybe come for Xmas , ill nver cook a roast or goose fat roast potato again. Just 2 of us are eat anything, 1 vegetarian, 1 vegan, 1 pescatarian, 1 lactose free. It’s so sad. It’s also blinking expensive to host, huge planning and time to cook, a logistical nightmare not to cross contaminate. Even if they bought their own stuff my one oven and hob and a single draw air fryer can’t cope

total veganism is not a natural diet for humans 365/24! That’s a life style choice almost designed to inflict misery on the host

in your own home, fine,at your own time and effort