Mumsnetters voting Reform

[Illjustplayostrich]

Mumsnet mothers have always leaned Labour. Now Reform is ahead

https://www.thetimes.com/article/dbd39087-465c-4587-9eaa-292606ffb775?shareToken=a99daa444e8bc0f9444cca2bf01f3851

I'm slightly startled by this. I'm a centrist, slightly more right leaning perhaps but frankly I'm open to any government who will get a firm grip on the public finances and go about growing the economy in a sustainable way. My impression of this site is that it's definitely more left leaning and and Reform enthusiasts tend to get shouted down. Personally, I think we should be talking about them a lot more as it's highly likely they will form part of the next government.

My impression is that they are promising the earth but don't have people with the necessary skill set to make that happen. I really worry that they will get voted in and find out that they can't fix all the problems within 18 months, leading to yet more disillusionment amongst voters.

They absolutely can be worse.

@JoyintheMorning I am confused by your response. Are you arguing that kowtowing to religious groups (which I don’t agree with) is bigger than our lack of productivity?!

@carpetfluffs No but it is a problem that could be dealt with if the will existed. Labour have no intention of changing their attitude to religious groups and are unlikely to do much about productivity. They rely on votes from both the religious groups and the Unions who oppose all productivity deals on principle. See railways.
We need a stronger right of centre government.

No, many of us do actually enjoy a reasoned debate, but we recognise that there is simply no point in engaging with people who have already been captured by the far right.

People who are planning to vote for Reform are motivated by emotion and prejudice, not logic or rational argument, and they have typically swallowed a vast amount of disinformation. There is no value in trying to reason with them, they are a lost cause and so our efforts are better focused elsewhere.

No she isn’t unusual, and yes Reform can be worse. Farage is taking money from America and his followers are taking it from Russia.

Reform will be the final nail in the coffin for this dying country.

Except they can be worse than the other alternatives. Much worse. And they will be much worse.

I really can't stand the kind of glib naivety exemplified by your post. I see it a lot on here from many different posters. When Reform fuck this country over, as they inevitably will if people like you are foolish enough to vote them into power, then please remember when it all comes crashing down that you will be responsible for putting them in government.

You should be careful what you wish for.

Can you hear yourself?
Some people have a different opinion to yours. That doesn't make you superior, or them a 'lost cause'.

This sentiment can always be returned.

I read this too. It doesn’t surprise me that Reform are popular on MN. They are!

All the angst about it is in part to do with the hard politics they represent. What liberal people find difficult is that liberal ideas are expensive. They would like to imagine that there is something innate in people that makes them tolerant or accepting. That is not true. History shows otherwise.

Some of what Reform say would not have been out of place in the Conservative Party thirty or forty years ago. It is just appearing in a different party.

I don’t think Thatcher was anything like Farage. And l hated her.

It is this attitude that will bring Reform [or worse] in, if you have no valid arguments to encourage people to vote for your choice and you abandon 'them' as if they are a 'lost cause' then you might find they abandon you!

Personally I think Labour are the final nail in the coffin of the UK. If there even is a UK in 3-4 years time. They are not going to do anything for the people still living in the UK.

Reform are not all about Farage. He is just the chirpy pint drinker. Which I don’t believe as clearly he’s a cocktail man.

But Thatcher’s party wasn’t liberal in any respect. Nor is Reform. Farage is a clear fan of 1980s Conservative policy. He was a member in those years.

Reform is brand new and while we don’t know how successful they will be in power (ignoring the biased reporting concerning their very short time in local government) they simply cannot be any worse than all the other alternatives.

Do you think that’s what went through the heads of new Trump voters?

Yes, but they weren’t as extreme as him. Not even Thatcher was.

Well the issue is that a lot of people like Reform’s messaging. And our society is now far less homogeneous than it was in the 1980s. Retro Reform have emotional engagement. You can say it’s all about policy but honestly Farage is the best politician out there doing that. No one else is. Until there is a mainstream politician who can match that in the Conservative or Labour Party then this lead Reform have will remain. The real question is whether the Conservatives accept their downgrade and do a deal with them.

Extreme in which respect?

Thatcher was pretty extreme in the ways she was extreme in the time she was extreme in. She didn't have the same issues that are now on the table. Mainly thanks to Blair who completely changed the UK and who was a huge fan of Thatcher. He also put into play war games that are playing out now and he then went on to found a foundation that gets paid to sort out his mess and which just gets worse and worse.

No, it isn't "this attitude" that will bring Reform in, and I'm sick of seeing people trying to pin the blame for the far right on the left. That isn't how it works. If Reform are elected, then the responsibility for that will sit firmly with the fuckwits that were stupid enough to elect them. Nobody is forcing them to make that choice. They must own it.

And you're missing the point. It isn't that there are no valid arguments, there are plenty. It is about the recognition that these people aren't actually interested in valid arguments or facts or logic because that is not what guides their voting intentions. There is simply no point arguing with them.

As for them "abandoning" me, they have long since abandoned everything that was decent about our society. If there are enough of them to vote Reform in, then I am fortunate enough to have an escape plan and I will leave them to rot in the sewer of their own creation. I will feel deeply sorry for the people who will be left behind who had no part in putting Reform into power, but sadly, there won't be much that I can do for them at that point.

Nope. You really have missed the point.

Where will you be going out of both relevance and curiosity?

I don’t see that at all.

I have no issue with people who have different opinions. But those who have been captured by the far right are a lost cause in my opinion, and I make no apology for that.

Racists are inferior in my view.

You can have the view you do but people will return it. It’s a widening division.

Haven't decided yet. We have three options where we could go without needing a visa. I think I know which one we would opt for, but we would make a final decision nearer the time.

I take it you’re not willing to clarify where. Which is a shame, as your post makes this very relevant.