Mumsnetters voting Reform

[Illjustplayostrich]

Mumsnet mothers have always leaned Labour. Now Reform is ahead

https://www.thetimes.com/article/dbd39087-465c-4587-9eaa-292606ffb775?shareToken=a99daa444e8bc0f9444cca2bf01f3851

I'm slightly startled by this. I'm a centrist, slightly more right leaning perhaps but frankly I'm open to any government who will get a firm grip on the public finances and go about growing the economy in a sustainable way. My impression of this site is that it's definitely more left leaning and and Reform enthusiasts tend to get shouted down. Personally, I think we should be talking about them a lot more as it's highly likely they will form part of the next government.

My impression is that they are promising the earth but don't have people with the necessary skill set to make that happen. I really worry that they will get voted in and find out that they can't fix all the problems within 18 months, leading to yet more disillusionment amongst voters.

I know lots of former Labour voters who are now saying they will vote for Reform. Its common in red wall areas, and polling confirms that.

That’s hyperbole and inaccurate - left wing posters have discussed immigration issues. In particular, there have been discussions in relation to Brexit, and immigration patterns and numbers changed massively after we left EU. It would be really refreshing for those on the right - Johnson, Farage et al - who championed Brexit could have an honest debate about that.

Your point about housing is a complex one. Maybe I’ve interpreted you incorrectly, but while immigration will have an impact, particularly in urban areas, that’s only part of the issue. Successive governments have failed to build enough houses, particularly social housing which was further depleted by the ‘Right to Buy’ scheme. We have an aging population, many of whom still reside in family homes, which is all good, but again impacts on housing. There has also been a huge increase in people buying second homes - many in rural areas - which has caused huge issues for locals looking to get on the property ladder.

As someone who is left-wing, I think we do need a considered discussion on immigration, but it has to be part of a much wider context. The issue with Reform and the Tory’s election slogan of ‘Stop the Boats’ is that becomes a single, dominating issue - and leads to the populism of Farage, ‘This is the issue, I’ll fix it’ without any real substance, or seriously alarming policies like sending female Afghan asylum seekers back to the Taliban.

And while I know that there are many across the political spectrum who have genuine concerns about immigration, there are also a (hopefully) small but loud voices who are racist and bigoted. Seriously, you should see the bully boys who are backing up Reform councillors in my hometown, which means that local people are too frightened to post any criticisms about them on social media.

Like Gransnet - used to be centrist/slight left now after Brexit it's Reform central

The loudest voices and most prolific posters on the site are right-wing. Lots of people providing 'data' - usually one piece of data to support their view (often The Times, Telegraph, Daily Mail). Labour have made mistakes but I won't be voting Reform.

There is no ‘answer’ which would align with your ‘kind, tolerant, open’ left wing credentials. Either you accept it’s such an issue it needs addressing & the only solutions are ones that don’t sit comfortably with you but must be done; or you continue until the country is all but destroyed and the rage is off the charts because ‘I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m not willing to try anything either’

The reason the racist voices dominate the debate is because the left wing made immigration such an off-limits topic that non racists are scared to mention it.

They’ve done all this themselves.

Absolutely. It’s terrifying. For example - the significantly reduced work opportunities for young people as a result of such policies, is catastrophic. And many small businesses closing as it’s unaffordable to continue. Kids being removed from their schools. I can’t believe Reeves has an economics degree, she shows no understanding of economics at all.

@Playingvideogames So no accountability at all on the actual racists or acknowledgement of the fact that right-wing led Brexit or the huge increase in immigration under a right-wing government? Easier to just to make sweeping statements with no balance or nuance or critical thinking at all, and blame the left. Gotcha.

You can’t be ‘concerned about the environment’ while advocating for the destruction of habitat to throw up yet more houses for yet more immigrants when the country is already vastly overpopulated. The two are incompatible.

The problem is even mainstream wildlife and nature charities can’t advocate for what is needed as they’re so wedded to ‘intersectionality’ and ‘not appearing racist’ they can’t point out overpopulation is the main issue in the UK. Instead they tinker around the edges with renewable energy and recycling.

Following for later

Jeremy Corbyn was a (closeted) Brexiteer, and Brexit now bizarrely has changed into a pro-communism, anti-NATO movement.

Totally agree

@TheNuthatch There is a huge crossover with those former Labour/Red Wall voters who are now voting Reform, who also voted for Brexit and Johnson - a protest vote of sorts. Lots to dissect in that. Their votes for Brexit and Johnson haven’t really been the golden ticket they imagined, and judging by Reform led councils and Farage’s past record in politics, then this latest vote is unlikely to be any better. But that’s democracy.

Or, what we could have, is like what happened in Caerphilly, which Reform threw everything at to win and failed. It could be that people vote tactically to keep Reform out and we see a wider range of parties with more seats in parliament.

Absolutely right. I’m from a very very wc Labour area (moved away many years ago) that has recently changed to reform. Apparently it’s not going well which helps for future quashing of reform, I hope.

Starmer and his ‘working people’ tripe.

As Starmer and his Labour mates build up their investment funds courtesy of British tax payers, people in ex-Labour heartlands are really suffering. And reform are pretending they’ll help - whilst Labour are calling them racist bigots. Shocker reform are surging, and Labour are flailing about like a fish in sawdust.

@Playingvideogames Yes, I’m aware, thanks. Are you suggesting that Corbyn is responsible for Brexit in the same way as Farage, Johnson and the Tories who called the referendum and then did the deal on it? I didn’t say that every person on the left was against Brexit - the point I was making is about how Brexit changed the immigration pattern and numbers.

I agree with some of your post, but I don't think it's true that most of these people in the red wall who voted to leave also voted for Boris Johnson. Many in the NW voted for Brexit, but then returned a Labour MP in the following GE. Now those same constituencies are predicted to go to Reform according to the most recent MRP.

The results of tactical voting from left and right will be interesting at the next GE.

I agree that the issue NOW is dominated by the fear of appearing racist.

I said that left leaning people were trying to get movement and indeed some traction on sustainable development not over development on this 2 decades ago and were shouted down by right wing people.

Sustainable development means not putting up shit housing on flood plains and sitting on brown belt land to drive up prices. Sustainable development means looking at the housing that already exists and making it habitable again. 30 years ago I drove around the country doing my job and the amount of empty housing falling apart was bad back then. Now, last time I came to the UK there were abandoned shops and homes above shops in city cenres whilst hundreds of people slept on the streets. It is insane.

You said no left wing people had EVER even acknowledged the objective truth and yes, we did and were trying to raise the issue years ago.

@TheNuthatch Yes, point taken, I agree and I know what you say to be true - it’s exactly what happened in my hometown. It’s a frightening prospect that they’ll go Reform when I see the intimidation and bully boy tactics that comes from some of the Reform supporters very close to already elected councillors…a far cry from the old Etonian Kruger and the professional rebranding Yusuf is striving for.

In Caerphilly they had an alternative - Plaid Cymru.
Who can voters in English constituencies go for, if they dislike the two main parties and don’t want Reform?
As PPs said, LibDem are below the radar.

As the saintly Barack Obama said in a speech to students " Good people sometimes do bad things and bad people often do good things in amongst the bad". Donald Trump isn't the first or last politician to be sexually weird. The UK parliament is full of them. American politicians are equally revolting.

Just a note of warning on the graph / article …The Times says that the support for Reform on mumsnet has been identified by mumsgpt, mumsnets AI software, analysing conversations about politics. Now, as mumsnet struggles to provide a technically stable site meeting the bare minimum requirements of a forum much of the time the chances of its AI tools identifying actual trends among posts/posters seems somewhat low… Businesses like Microsoft, google and Meta have invested billions in their tools, which are still flawed. Mumsnet can’t have spent more than about £50k, so I think we’re safe from Reform for a while ;)

This sort of post is what makes it so difficult to have true political discourse on MN. The same old tropes keep appearing- want to see immigration controlled- you are a racist. Want to be able to discuss misogynistic religions - you are Islamaphobic/ racist. Believe Brexit was necessary to regain control of our own laws- you are a sad, thick Little Englander.

Insults just breed contempt on all sides of political debate but that’s all I see here. It’s very depressing and the worst of this in my view comes from the left wing posters who are getting more and more vitriolic.

I wondered about the authenticity of that graph.Because it’s the Times, and I’ve never been involved in any political polling on MN.

Never seen any.

The tories introduced expanded childcare. The employment rights bill is going to absolutely hamstring business, especially small business as they won't be able to get rid of pisstakers. The Tories introduced UC, come to that. As for the breakfast clubs, ok-but in London where I am, Sadiq khan didn't fund them, he's left it to councils who are on their knees. And frankly it's ridiculous that people who can afford to pay now don't! We'd happily pay, there is absolutely a mechanism in place to grant that to families that need it but not to those who don't.

And the main thrust of your point is missing one great big fact which is that NONE of it is free, it is public money. We all pay-or at least taxpayers do. And while I'm more than happy to pay my share of tax, it feels like we are subsidizing more and more.

I agree. I've been here 11 and a bit years under various names. It has shifted a LOT from where MN used to be.

Nowhere near as lighthearted anymore either.