Mumsnetters voting Reform

[Illjustplayostrich]

Mumsnet mothers have always leaned Labour. Now Reform is ahead

https://www.thetimes.com/article/dbd39087-465c-4587-9eaa-292606ffb775?shareToken=a99daa444e8bc0f9444cca2bf01f3851

I'm slightly startled by this. I'm a centrist, slightly more right leaning perhaps but frankly I'm open to any government who will get a firm grip on the public finances and go about growing the economy in a sustainable way. My impression of this site is that it's definitely more left leaning and and Reform enthusiasts tend to get shouted down. Personally, I think we should be talking about them a lot more as it's highly likely they will form part of the next government.

My impression is that they are promising the earth but don't have people with the necessary skill set to make that happen. I really worry that they will get voted in and find out that they can't fix all the problems within 18 months, leading to yet more disillusionment amongst voters.

I don’t mind any of that at all. My issue is we are offering this benefit to the world and I just don’t think it’s sustainable. Our GDP isn’t big enough.

Sigh.

I’m not going to say migration levels are irrelevant to the problems the UK faces. It seems to me that the decisions by successive governments to support the economy with skilled labour from other countries rather than do the hard yards of education and training its own people is now seriously damaging both Labour and Conservative.

People are a bit naive in the UK, particularly if younger. My view is that we are heading back to a society that looks much more like the early 80s. If you don’t have some property of your own then actually it is probably worse.

Tbf it was probably to highlight earlier language.

I think it’s more to do with the big increase in people living alone.

It depends whether Labour keep losing growth due to those taxes, and that depends on behaviour. Plus a lot of what is paid could just be going to high borrowing costs.

These are the wealthy people who vote. The UK is really a property owning democracy; since we gave up on social provision on housing (which should have been protected from sale) then ultimately the message has been to get all you can in assets. That is what people have been incentivized to do.

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack is far from the only person who holds such a strange and distorted worldview.

I’ve noticed something about these posters. I’m willing to bet 90% of the following applies to each of them (although they’ll never confirm, of course)

1. They are higher earners. They live in middle class villages and cities, think Oxford or nice parts of Exeter/York/Bath. They do not live in very multicultural areas and never, ever in (heaven forbid) working class multicultural areas like Rotherham, Leeds or Dewsbury.
2. Despite not living in these areas, they’re absolutely convinced those who do (who have concerns about immigration) are ‘just racist’. But they don’t want to live there themselves. Ahem
3. They are very insulated against the effects of overpopulation - like Mrs B, they can usually simply move abroad if needs be, so the UK can just be a social experiment for their worldview - if shit really does hit the fan they can simply bail.
4. They have a very odd and regressive worldview of non-white people as being gentle, not very bright, left wing folk who are extremely vulnerable and in need of their protection. They will reject any and all protests that compared to almost all of the countries with a high level of immigration to the UK, the UK is far more left wing. They also don’t make the link between very misogynistic countries producing men who are more likely to be misogynists. I don’t know who they think are oppressing the women in Afghanistan, but it’s ’definitely not the men arriving here’.
5. They’re very keen on pointing out these immigrants should come to ‘do jobs lazy Brits don’t want to’, showing they’re happy to create a world where immigrants are funnelled into a kind of low-skilled underclass. This doesn’t sit right with me - I don’t think we should only ever see people from other countries as ‘the ones who wipe our bums in old age’.
6. They also stick their fingers in their ears when you point out the ‘sexist, very very racist and far right’ Conservatives are by far the most diverse political party who have had multiple female leaders, and the most ethnically diverse Cabinet who - for reasons they cannot possibly fathom - produced a set of right wing policies. I mean, why??? Surely they’re not white so they must be left wing?! And as for Kemi Badenoch - well, shes just a self loathing stooge (apparently). It can’t possibly be that she’s a woman with her own views who has formed an opinion different to theirs.
7. They won’t discuss overpopulation in numerical terms ever, as they know the numbers are frankly terrifying and damning. Far better to call everyone racist and have done with it. Well they are… aren’t they?
8. Equally they will not acknowledge the threats Islamism pose to the UK despite the fact we have people in hiding for ‘blasphemy’, a parallel religious court system metering out its own ‘justice’, the serious problem with cousin marriage producing severely disabled kids which entrap the women in their homes to a lifetime of gruelling care, MPs advocating for marrying relatives when this is not the year 1650, and groups organising the Muslim vote so they can influence the UK Parliament to be a Sharia-friendly state only concerned with ‘religious’ sensitivities, Gaza and turning a blind eye to anything that might upset them.

These very same people say they care about women, male violence, equality, racial stereotypes, and freedom of speech/thought/belief.

It’s amazing to me, it really is.

I would also add to that. Hugely shielded from the massive damage Labour are doing to things such as education, the economy and employment opportunities.

Either on welfare OR retired on public sector pensions OR both. Dreaming of the good old days on the public coin.

The public sector used to be VERY left. Now, not so. If you tried to explain the positives of Labour in our staff room, you’d get short shrift. They have damaged the employment chances of our youth with 6th form politics. They are destroying the private sector and employment opportunities. People who don’t see this and are sheltered from it, may well think that Labour are great. Haven’t pensioners and welfare claimants been the most protected so far? Problem is, everyone else has been hammered to pay for it which has resulted in problems with the economy and employment.

@Sherbs12 I wonder if we live in the same area. A lot of what you are saying is ringing true with me!

This is an excellent article. If you’ve got Substack, it’s free to download. A very sensible piece.

10 Traits of a Useful Idiot - By Gadfly
**
How to spot the people destroying civilisation while feeling virtuous about it.

Reform is a new party, many supporting members have not belonged to a political party before. They will learn. For those who compare us with USA. Remember Trump is a Republican and these policies are traditional Republican policies. America First, MAGA, using Tariffs, wanting to control Central America. The fact that The Supreme Court is biased toward Trump and current domestic policies may well be that they feel that the Democrats were appallingly bad in so many woke ways they will go along with Trump to get things done "and he can't be worse than the last bunch!".

Point 9 is my ‘favourite’

‘NINE: They never pay the price for being wrong

Most celebrities are as wealthy and influential as they are catastrophically misguided. They can afford to be both because they pay no price for their ignorance – indeed, they profit from it in an industry otherwise baffled by reality.

The same is true for academics who championed puberty blockers. They still have tenure. The journalists who dismissed grooming gangs still have columns.
Meanwhile, detransitioners live with ruined bodies and girls in Rotherham live with trauma. The hostages died in tunnels. The women in Iran were beaten to death.

The useful idiot faces no consequences for ignoring or sanitising any of these things. Someone else always foots the bill. This is why they can afford to be so certain.

When you risk nothing, you can champion anything and earn status points, which is really what most of this is about.‘

Quite. People retired on final salary pensions or those on welfare are not paying the price our youth are. It’s not the rich who are paying, it’s the youth, those working, those on PAYE. It’s collateral damage to them. SMEs going under, unemployment stats, youth stats all must be made up because THEY don’t see it.

Done well and got a good job? Pay more so they can comfortably sit on huge pots of unearned wealth and pensions you can only dream of and say you need to pay your fair share. You are questioning if the welfare system needs reform. Be quiet, go to work so people on MN can hurl abuse at you all day saying you aren’t doing your fair share. The hypocrisy of it all stinks.

It is really clear why the site has moved the way it has. They’ve joined the other 88% of the population who are sick of it.

Could be! Although judging by accounts I follow on social media, it sadly doesn’t seem to be unique to one area. It will be interesting to see how Farage and Yusuf deal with this particular group they’ve courted and enticed in order to increase membership and win popularity polls - as I said before, a far cry from the respectable, professional political party Reform are desperately trying to convince us they are.

@Playingvideogames that was a great post!

Good post. Thank you for writing that - agree with it all. With some additions as per @Legolava ’s post.

God it’s depressing.

The demographic has aged, if you were on here 20 years ago it seemed to be mainly parents (so early twenties to late thirties ish) and far fewer members & boards.
If you're still here after twenty years then you're early forties to late fifties, life and successive governments/world events will almost certainly make you a different animal now than you were then.
There are now a few million members, a wider variety of views, and probably twice as many lurkers trying to get a feel for the vox pop or to glean info/entertainment. There are now separate spaces for ethnicity, faith, nationality and contentious topics. It's not a hive mind but it is a microcosm of a wider vox pop, predominantly female.

Incidentally if it feels right wing, it may depend how far to the left you're standing, and as per the rear view mirror, objects behind you are closer than you think.

Have you ever got a train - from say for example Manchester to london, or Leeds to london or Liverpool to Manchester? There’s vast swathes of fields. People need homes - your hatred of immigrants seems to be blinding you to all the grass.
who’s going to pay taxes to fund your old age / train future teachers to teach your kids etc?

I think the Mumsnet polling illustrates the problem. Reform may well win on a low vote share, maybe as low as 28-29% of the vote.

Labour also won on a low vote share- 33.7%. So more than two thirds of voters didn't vote for them, and maybe a third of voters who did just didn't want the Tories. People aren't bought in to the Government or it's programme and it's making it very difficult for them to govern, let alone make really radical changes.

I think Reform will face a similar problem, although they might be a bit more Millwall in their attitude about it.

A Reform (or indeed a Labour or Tory or Green) win also doesn't magically change the UK's structural problems- regardless of what you think of migrants, deporting lots of them will only push our average age even higher for e.g.

I'm not unhappy with the government and would vote Labour again. I do feel that there's a strong hint of nonspecific punishment coming my way if Reform win- in fact on Facebook I see supposed Reform supporters openly saying that when Reform get in left leaning 'traitors' will be punished. Which doesn't really encourage me to vote for them tbh.

Gotta love grass and nature, plus England is densely populated going by stats.

What is it you see happening as the people who arrive age? Does it just keep needing to go up like a Ponzi scheme

The fields have a role to play. It's sad that you see fields and green belt only as something to be concreted over.

As for who is going to pay tax when we get old, then I think it's going to be the same people who are paying tax now.

Oh God here comes the ‘but I can see some green fields from my window…’ brigade. The type who forget each person requires 1 acre of farmland to feed them, and that it takes 22 trees to offset the emissions of 1 car per year, let alone the fact we also need proper rewarded habitats on top of the farmland so as not to kill wildlife at a frightening rate. Do you want a food chain?

As for ‘immigrants doing the jobs’ after 7 million+ immigrants since 2000, and the economy still in tatters and jobs going unfilled in critical sectors, why have you come to conclusion immigration is solving the problem and we in fact need more?

And yet no one ever bothers to talk about this. Instead, it's we NEED immigration as without it, we'd have no staff for the nhs/ care work/engineering etc etc. Why is no party addressing the fact that this is of their own making? Without upskilling their own population, the cycle will forever continue. And then, those young immigrants become old and sick and require care which means more immigrant labour, who then need more houses and schools and public services....It's never ending.

@ScholesPanda I think what you refer to from some Reform supporters on Facebook is increasing and becoming more widespread - and it’s actually quite intimidating, particularly in close communities and small towns. It really needs more scrutiny and exposure. I cannot imagine it’s something Reform leadership will address. The only consolation is that there are a lot of decent people who see this happening, see what parts of Reform are about and are disgusted by it.