5 year old not saying thank you

[twixmassy]

We’ve done the rounds of family Christmas visits and unfortunately my 5 year old (year 1) didn’t say thank you for any of his gifts given by his relatives. We have always taught him to be polite, to say please and thank you, and we model it ourselves. At school he is apparently very polite to adults, and he’s generally a lovely boy, but this Christmas he didn’t say please or thank you at all.

I felt really shocked, and really disappointed at this, combined with embarrassment and also some judgement in the part of certain relatives. (Awkward family dynamics didn’t help).

We reminded him to say thank you but he didn’t. He then stubbornly refused because it started to become a battle of wills which I wanted to avoid. We since have spoken to him about the importance of politeness, gratitude and humility (in child speak obviously) but I’m not sure it’s sank in. I don’t know where we’ve gone wrong.

I also found him playing roughly with a small toy I’d bought him and breaking it by accident. I said I felt sad as I bought the toy for him but he said no you didn’t, Santa did! So that’s another issue.

He definitely knew the relatives had bought the presents though, and not Santa, as they handed them to him themselves.

I am worried my son is going to become a brat. How do you teach a child to be grateful and polite and say thank you for gifts- assuming you’re already modelling that at home?

has anyone else experienced this with a 5 year old?

@OhDear111 as I said I thought I’d wasn’t real.

So a five year old who has good manners normally went silent and wouldn’t speak when in the presence of a large number of adults whom he did not know well and who generally think children should be silent? Well he was silent wasn’t he?

I’m a big believe in teaching children the courtesies of their surroundings (“what’s the magic word” was a regular reminder in our house too, along with the reminder that its about kindness not just ritual words). However I’m not a fan of “performance manners” and the reality is children learn first and foremost from the behaviour modelled by the adults around them.

Were all the adults busily thanking each other at each exchange of gifts, being offered drinks etc?

Rather than read the riot to a five year old as some PPs suggest I would talk to him after about why he forgot his normal good manners and why that was a shame. This isn’t a child who normally has a problem - its a child who had one bad day at a hyper time of year surrounded by adults who don’t especially want to hear from children.

Did you really want him to say thank you for each gift as he opened it?

That seems a bit too much imho. The same with practicing gratitude and humility.

I would just ask him to say “thank you Santa and everyone else who got me a present” once before opening the gifts.

And if a toy is broken accidentally try not to guilt trip the kid.

Wish someone had explained to DH and his entire family the importance of saying ‘thank you’.

It seems it just never occurs to them. They go so far as to indicate that presents should be given for the joy of giving, not in order to receive thanks.

v v tedious

@Snowonground It was the situation though wasn’t it! He’s normally fine. So, like many dc he didn’t say what he should do with 20 people there. When we used to go to YR assembly some dc refused to say what they were supposed to. Occasionally one would run off. Some dc just don’t like these situations with more people. I’d suggest finding a quiet place for saying thank you or do some thank you drawings in advance. He will understand but 5 year olds aren’t entirely biddable and neither are they awful when they don’t comply. As I said, he’s got plenty of time to retrieve the situation.

You are saying thank you before you open it in recognituon of the effort and thought the giver has expended.

But from the op's post people did mind!

He might have been overwhelmed, so fair enough to remind him. But if he still refused, that’s just plain rude and I would take the gift away. If it feels too late for that now, get him to draw a special picture for the present-givers, with your writing on it of a simple sentence saying thank-you. (If he has the ability, he should copy the sentence underneath.) If he refuses to do the drawings, or makes a big fuss, he loses the gift.

"It's the thought that counts" being the important part.

@scalt I agree with your sentiments here. in rugby, the referee is called “sir” in a left over from public school rugby matches; but it’s just a word. It’s taught “respect” and in the USA “sir” is used all the time. Is it genuine respect? Almost certainly not. We use many words because it’s seen as polite to do so, but our actions are often far from polite - a rugby player might gauge the eye of another showing no respect at all. He might call the referee “sir” when he’s sent off, but he’s still a dangerous thug.

My 4yo had a phase of losing her voice only when required to say thank you. I did quite a bit of prompting, huffing and thanking on her behalf for quite some time, but I’m pretty sure the breakthrough came when she gave another child a gift and they looked super happy and said thank you really enthusiastically, and then afterwards we talked briefly about how nice it was, how happy she made the other child with the gift, and didn’t it feel nice when they were so happy and said thank you, and that’s why we say thank you because it makes the person who gave the gift happy too. Maybe she felt a bit more powerful with it, I don’t know, but something seemed to click.

Perhaps I overdid it by saying manners are "utterly meaningless": I do realise that they are there to make people feel comfortable, or appreciated. But I do think "good manners" become meaningless if they are overdone, or blatantly scripted.

Other examples: I'm sure that many Mumsnetters have moaned about their conversation in a restaurant being interrupted with "is everything all right?" from a helpful waiter. (Those in the know understand that this is normal procedure, so that customers don't later complain about the meal being unsatisfactory.) And many of us are wary of salesmen who overdo the politeness, who use your name every sentence.

An interesting one is German manners. Although they love their "vielen Dank / Bitte schon" routine (thank you / you're welcome), in many other ways, they can sound abrupt to English people. We had German au pairs, and my mum used to brief them about English manners, saying "you may have noticed that English people say things like 'would you mind...' 'could you please...' etc."

I'm sure there have been many MN threads where people don't like receiving compliments, because they don't know how to respond. My stock reply if someone compliments me on something I did is "thank you, I enjoyed doing it."

@scalt I posted a long time ago that performing a “thank you” doesn’t mean much but as you can see, the Brits love it!

I totally get what you mean scalt. DH is much more a stickler for manners than me. I do try to use please/thank you etc, but I don't really notice or care if other people use them, to me being polite is much more about the tone and expectation. I will stop and correct DC if they say something like "I want a drink!" to "Can you get me a drink please?" but it's the tone and expectation I dislike, not the lack of please.

I remember we used to have a neighbour who would ask for childcare favours, and the first time he asked me about it DH heard from another room and said incredulously to me "Did he even say please?!" and I suppose he must not have, if he noticed the lack of it, but I genuinely had not registered whether he did or not, and I didn't find his manner of speaking impolite, although I was a bit reluctant to say yes in case it became expected all the time (which it did but we moved fairly shortly afterwards so it wasn't an issue).

Think that says a lot about you.

@Snowonground ? Why? We know people say words such as apologies and mean no such thing. Words are not true feelings. Look at the performance words of politicians! Most people understand that. I’m British and I see some people really crave dc to perform the thank you routine so, to please them, my biddable dc did. They still do as adults and are brilliant networkers. However young dc they don’t always get the connection between words and feelings. My dc said everything expected of them but whether all dc understand the feeling of gratitude and a heart felt apology is another matter. Many perform the necessary words as demanded and then run off!

Just replying to you on the subject of manners and ignoring the OPs specific scenario for a moment.

Manners are a sign of a civilised society where people respect each other. That's the culture the UK has (or did). And most people value them. They are useful to avoid confrontation or aggravation when going through the world with millions of other people. Ie if you are bumped into and you both say sorry that means you are both acknowledging each other.

People with no manners are generally not popular. If your kids didn't say thank you for a present then that is rude and they probably won't get any more. Thats because the giver may think that they are not valued or respected (and your child is a spoiled little shit).

There's a method of interviewing people for jobs at a high level where an applicant is given a cup of coffee while waiting for the interview. They are then judged as to how the person interacts with the reception staff and what they do with the mug. Anyone who is dismissive or doesn't say thank you or just leaves the cup there when they leave is immediately discounted as not being a good team player or potential leader or respectful of all types of people no matter their status.

Do you say please or thank you to waiting staff? Or if you do, is that just "performative"?

@Snowonground My DDs wrote thank you letters and said thank you in person - always. They are not rude and have very good manners thank you!!! However the point is that you can insist on good manners and dc can see it as ritual nagging. Yes, they do it and follow instructions and everyone is happy but we all say and do things to keep the peace and young children are often not aware of sincerity or deep meanings. So of course they do what they are told and I’m happy to report my dd are liked and respected as adults and have Thank You cards at the ready!

Not everything has to be a teaching moment. I spent Boxing Day with a 4 year old who is generally polite, she ripped open the presents and said very little. She didn’t immediately gush how thankful she was, but she opened the gifts and over the course of the day was playing with them. I didn’t need her to say thanks. Anyone who gets their knickers in a twist about this at Christmas isn’t giving for the right reasons.

@BoredZelda It certainly can say more about the expectations and status of the giver. They want gratitude and they want everyone else to hear it!

I was answering more on your general point that manners are performative. Not regarding children's manners (as mentioned at the start of my last post). Perhaps we got our wires crossed there.

Quid pro quo. No thank you; no present. Seems fair. No one in this world owes anyone anything.

@SnowongroundDepends if you want the kow tow of the thank you in front of everyone or are happy with a thank you note and enjoy seeing dc playing with a loved present. It’s all black and white on this thread with demanding adults and punishment!

Not all manners are a performance and certainly when dc learn about feeling gratitude, they are genuine. I love seeing dc playing with a great present and thanks can certainly come later. I do agree that teaching children about saying thank you is important but the op felt ashamed of dc that he didn’t speak up in front of 20 people. There’s more than one way of demonstrating thanks.

I wouldn't have been happy with my children taking anything from the hands of someone else without acknowledging it by saying thank you. It's just basic manners IMHO; nothing more complicated than that. And nothing wrong with how the Japanese do it! Little bit judgemental of you there?

But each to their own. We all bring our own children up with our own standards and I' only interested in my own children realistically. And if they get ahead on the manners front then that's all to the good for them!

Kow Tow is a Chinese tradition. Not judgemental but it’s an extreme form of respect @Snowonground