5 year old not saying thank you

[twixmassy]

We’ve done the rounds of family Christmas visits and unfortunately my 5 year old (year 1) didn’t say thank you for any of his gifts given by his relatives. We have always taught him to be polite, to say please and thank you, and we model it ourselves. At school he is apparently very polite to adults, and he’s generally a lovely boy, but this Christmas he didn’t say please or thank you at all.

I felt really shocked, and really disappointed at this, combined with embarrassment and also some judgement in the part of certain relatives. (Awkward family dynamics didn’t help).

We reminded him to say thank you but he didn’t. He then stubbornly refused because it started to become a battle of wills which I wanted to avoid. We since have spoken to him about the importance of politeness, gratitude and humility (in child speak obviously) but I’m not sure it’s sank in. I don’t know where we’ve gone wrong.

I also found him playing roughly with a small toy I’d bought him and breaking it by accident. I said I felt sad as I bought the toy for him but he said no you didn’t, Santa did! So that’s another issue.

He definitely knew the relatives had bought the presents though, and not Santa, as they handed them to him themselves.

I am worried my son is going to become a brat. How do you teach a child to be grateful and polite and say thank you for gifts- assuming you’re already modelling that at home?

has anyone else experienced this with a 5 year old?

Quite the opposite actually! A child who doesn't say thank you probably has bad manners.

You did tolerate it though as you didn't address it at the time!

Shocking!!!

What I used to do with my children and also with nieces/nephews at this age was when giving a present to not let go until they said thank you. They soon learn very quickly to say the words.

@twixmassy You have just got you and DS in a difficult Christmas conundrum. It’s fairly easy to see why he was off his game. As you might have picked up, I think there’s a few people posting who are not realistic about a 5 year old in this position but he can retrieve the situation by a thank you card/drawing. Yes, it’s easier to say thank you at the time but I’d not think he’s going to be poorly brought up because of this incident. Repeating this down the years might be problematic but in another year he will be a wiser child! Honestly, don’t worry. As long as he’s pleasant in his every day dealings with adults, he will be a great young person.

Strategies? You make sure your child ALWAYS says please and thank you. ALWAYS. Please and thankyou are instinctive

If child is non compliant there are immediate consequences. Immediate

There's your strategy

Oh the poor wee lad, confronted with a bunch of near strangers with a difficult family dynamic prevailing. It wasn't the end of the world and there was absolutely no need for confrontation or humiliation. I'm sure he'll copy out a nice and very simple thank you note shortly to make up for it. The most important thing is that he is secure and quietly and gently learns. He is six, just loke Christopher Robin. Be kind, that's the most important modelling.

With mine it was rinse and repeat. Instill sometimes say "what's the magic word" to my DS. He is not a brat and has a huge social conscience. He's 31, with a baby on the way, who I am quite sure will be nicely brought up.

I'm a strong believer in Please and thank you but sometimes it's all about the tone. I'd rather a shy child who felt unable to say it paralysed by ovwrwhelm, than a child who did and was brattish otherwise.

My youngest always says please and thank you at home and school. His manners are commented on regularly. However, in that situation where routine was different, we were in a strange place and so many people were looking he would be completely overwhelmed and would struggle with his communication. I would never punish him for that, I would say thank you modelling expectation and then later when we were one to one with people we would say thank you or would write / draw thank you. I think it’s perfectly normal that a polite child would struggle in such an overwhelming situation. As an adult I would feel a level of anxious , although I would obviously manage it better.

@MrsDoubtingMyself Find that naughty step right now! We have so many sanctimonious people on this thread! The child isn’t a monster or criminal in waiting.

I think this reference to nursery age 4 year old is to me. I don’t want to try & go toe to toe with you, as I don’t think it’s beneficial for parents and especially mums to do that or compete. I’m well aware children are different, but my just turned 4 DD has a genetic condition which has left her developmentally around 12 months behind her peers so my reference to that (though lacking context as you’ve referenced) was kind of thinking if we can do it, anyone can. And I don’t mean that to scald you - I mean it’s literally possible. After clearly explaining about manners (which it doesn’t sound like your child should have any difficulty understanding) my preferred technique is just not letting go of the item they want until they actually say thank you.

@twixmassy “Others he’s met before but they are old-fashioned or strict about things like play and exploring, “children should be seen and not heard” etc. So that didn’t help and I was impacted by their judgements and fear of them all witnessing a meltdown or confrontation”.

How was he in himself otherwise, OP? Did he seem quite withdrawn? Based on what you’ve shared above, I’m wondering if your child picked up on some of your fear? Children are extremely attuned to their parents cues of safety and danger. Even subtle cues like tone of voice, posture, facial expression. A child who detects this may go into a slight shutdown themselves. Look into polyvagal theory, it’s very interesting. I don’t subscribe to the idea that an otherwise well mannered child, with caring, considerate parents, just decided to be a ‘brat’. That’s a really narrow view of a child’s process - it doesn’t quite work like that.

First, be calm with him, take the pressure off. Connect with him and get to the root of what may have been going on. Shouting, punishing, pressuring or expecting him to do something because “another child does it” may be effective for now… until it isn’t anymore.

I actually think your answer lays in your own description of the event and in your own awareness, OP.

Is it good manners to swear while discussing good manners? There's an awful lot of swearing on this thread. Just saying.

We Brits are obsessed with manners. There's a saying "The Europeans have good food; the British have good table manners." And among adults, there's a difference in "performance good manners", and genuine gratitude. Yes, I know, at five years old, good manners need to be taught as a formality, by rote and repetition. But think about it: if you're trained to say "thank you" the moment the present is handed over, what are you actually thanking somebody for? Handing a present over? The thought? Genuine gratitude is saying how lovely it is after you've opened it, and meaning it.

Yes, I know, doing it that way with five-year-olds doesn't work: their genuine reaction might be (between screams and sobs) "I don't want SOCKS!!!! I want TOYS!!!" But so much of good manners is mere "performance", and we all know it.

This is fascinating. I know I'm digressing from the topic of children's good manners, but when you start looking at them closely, our "highly valued" good manners are utterly meaningless, and we adults all know it. "Sorry" is another performance word. We train children to say "sorry" without really meaning it: we train them that it kind of gets you off the hook. And when they're a bit older, we confuse them with phrases such as "sorry shouldn't have to be said" (I remember a teacher who used to say that) or "you will be". The bankers who brought the country to its knees in 2008 said "sorry" as a performance word, and faced no consequences at all. Boris Johnson said "sorry" for Partygate, when he didn't mean it at all, and indeed, he actually "retracted" his apology.

To me, the phrase "thank you" is utterly meaningless, nothing more than a formality. I say it, because people expect it, and I notice when people say it to me. If I want to show genuine gratitude, I tend to say "I really appreciate that".

The Americans say: "Pass the salt, please."
The British say: "Er... sorry to interrupt... would you mind... would it be too much trouble if... would it put you out if I er... I asked you to er... pass... the... er... er... salt?"

When you get into a power struggle it's unhelpful IMO. I would drop it at that point and at some point over the next few days when things are calmer, sit down with him and get him to write thank-you messages to everyone who got him a gift. Including Santa, if you like. The message can be short, literally "Dear Aunty Jane, thank you for my cars, love from Harry".

It will help him to practice his writing and also show gratitude. If he struggles with writing so that would be too much, you could do the names and he could just fill in a blank with "Thank you" and his name. Or he could draw pictures instead. Then either photograph the messages and send them as a text, or put them in an envelope and post them.

Its hardly sanctimonious to hope for a thank you from a five year old (not a toddler) when given a present. If you can't see the benefit in manners for their own sake, then think about how good manners will benefit the kid himself in life. No one likes an ungrateful person. And a thank you is pretty basic.

As an adult I feel anxious talking infront of 20 people I don’t really know so as a child it could be very daunting. I remember as a child being literally unable to speak when I was with adults I didn’t know, it was overwhelming. Maybe have some sympathy for a small child in an overwhelming situation who is normally very polite.

Good manners are to ensure the other person feels comfortable. Chewing with your mouth shut prevents the person opposite you from retching looking at your chewed food. Holding a door open acknowledges the other person's presence and is a small kindness. Shaking hands is a sign of greeting and respect. Saying thank you shows gratitude. Its not "performative" at all.

Its a good habit to get into at an early age. Builds confidence.

I knew that, I was and still am a very polite and inconsiderate person, I just find loads of people overwhelming and as a child at times literally couldn’t speak. Insisting and humiliating wouldn’t help in that situation, time and space did. I still remember being humiliated by people because I was so shy, and I desperately wanted to speak.

Is that what is happening here though or are you projecting your own feelings. I don't think we really know. If that's the situation with the OPs child or he's ND then I feel very sorry for him. If he's just being rude then I don't (and a five year old will know it's rude).

To be fair we don’t know, but I don’t think it a reach to think a small child who is normally very polite finds talking in front of 20 people he doesn’t know overwhelming. It would take a very confident child to be comfortable with it. I doubt he was being rude. As someone who works with young child I would think overwhelmed is far more likely.

Yep very interesting @scaltIagree. I am conscious that forcing / scaring him into saying thank you may backfire and render the whole thing meaningless. At the same time I appreciate and value good manners so that matters.

To the pp who said I did nothing- that’s not the case. I did reinforce the thank you, and asked “what do you say to auntie x” but he stubbornly pursed his lips. It could be shyness guised as defiance- I don’t really know- I am just looking for a strategy to support him basically.

Someone upthread said (in block capitals if I remember) that saying please and thank you is instinctive. I don’t think it is though. Lucky for some parents if their child got it early on.

Yep! Especially if the child is brought up to understand that they always need to say thank you when they get something, even the mundane things at home.

my DB and DSIL were terrible about encouraging their DC to say thank you when appropriate at home. And guess what - they never did it when given anything outside the home either.

Your DC is 5, not 3!

Do you not instill this for every day things at home, to make it a habit?

'Stubbornly guised' 😂 if that was DD (4!), she wouldn't be receiving another present until she said thankyou. It's not stubborn, it's rudeness and you making excuses won't help him in the long run.

'Stubbotnly pursed' even