Surprised by not being able to get ambulance

[FrenchFancie]

This is in no way to have a dig at the ambulance service or at the hospitals (but maybe slightly at the junior doctors strike) but I have been really surprised recently when, for the first time in aaages, I have had to call 999 twice, and on both occasions wasn’t able to get an ambulance.

firstly my daughter was having an asthma attack, and not responding to medication. After 10 reliever puffs we called, and were told it would be a 1-2 hour wait. So we stuffed her in the back of the car and drove like idiots to the local hospital instead, where she was seen straight away. But it was a scary midnight drive. Her asthma plan states to ring 999 after 10 puffs and the ambulance should attend within 10 minutes.

second was through work where a child was having an epileptic seizure and again, we were told it was an unknown wait time, possibly 1-2 hours.

both of these things I felt really scared about, wanting urgent professional help and support, but it wasn’t available. I know I’m not going to get an ambulance for an adult with broken ankle, but kids with quick onset, possibly life threatening conditions, I was shocked there was nothing available.

is this the same now everywhere? It’s been years since I had to call 999 (like 10 years) and got a quick response last time (daughter fell off changing table, was in London and overreacted to her banging her head but the crew were lovely).

I don’t blame the ambulance service or 999 operators - in fact on both occasions the operator sounded stressed and upset they couldn’t get me help.

what, if anything, can be done about this situation?

☝Nailed it.

Had to call one a few weeks ago, two arrived within 15 minutes. In fact every aspect of care from start to finish was impeccable, I’ve never been so grateful for the NHS, and I was nervous that it wouldn’t be that way. It’s a shame that’s not a universal experience.

Very true and has for at least ten years.

My brother had a stroke in a different country, which is notoriously badly run, poor state health care etc, yet his care, both emergency and in hospital, was exemplary compared to what people are describing here.

The advance paramedic was about 7 minutes, an ambulance in less than 15, and immediate scan and treatment in hospital. Sadly outcome not good but made very comfortable and his wife treated with care and compassion, so at least we can know that the outcome wasn't because of poor medical care.

We were told 5-6 hours when my 90 year old nan suffered a stroke and collapsed in her garden. It was pouring with rain and she was wet and cold so adding the risk of hypothermia as well.

Fortunately my sister had an estate car so we folded the seats down and managed to lift her into it to drive to the hospital. There was a huge queue of ambulances outside A&E waiting to offload patients which is why one wasn’t available for us.

We couldn’t even get a wheelchair to move Nan from the car as there were none. Eventually a member of staff came out with a trolley to fetch her. It was utter chaos.

DH needed an ambulance a couple of years ago and we were told the wait was 10hrs. We had a nurse with us who phoned and said it was critical but they couldn't attend. The nurse came with us in the car and managed DH until we got to the hospital. No idea what we would have done without her.

I ended up in A&E in August (drove myself - no ambulances) and there were 9 sitting outside the hospital, waiting to offload. BIL was one of the paramedics and had been there for 7 hours.

I would have been enroute to the hospital after puff 6 or 7.

A friend of mine at school died at 16 from an Asthma attack.

Asthma plans are all good and well but they are not written in stone better to be in A&E. As you say Asthma is scary and can turn fatal quickly.

My DF..fell and in severe pain. 13 hour wait for ambulance, couldn't mobilise to take ourselves. Was seen and discharged as xray clear, within hours. 48 hours later back in ambulance as hospital had xrayed wrong body part. DF had fractured his hip.

Central Scotland. When DH,who has a history of heart failure,fell and broke his hip we waited 5 hours for an ambulance. He then waited outside the hospital for another hour,before being admitted where he spent several more hours on a trolley in A&E waiting for a bed. That was in April.

There was a recent situation in our area where an older man fell in his bathroom and broke his femur. When the ambulance hadn't arrived after 5 hours his daughter, a surgeon, drove for two hours to get home then contacted the local rugby club. They gave her the use of their van and stretcher and they carried him to hospital on the floor of a transit van.

The last time we experienced an ambulance the crew had been shipped in from somewhere up north (we’re in Hampshire) to cover our shortfalls. Maybe ambulance delays in Yorkshire are due to Hampshire “borrowing “ your crews 🤷‍♀️

A few weeks ago I couldn't wake my diabetic husband in the morning. Ambulance took an hour. By the time they arrived he was coming round but was very confused and agitated and wouldn't believe that they were paramedics. Didn't even recognise his own clothes. Wouldn't take the gel or anything to eat as he thought we were trying to kill him. Took an additional paramedic car and a police crew 2 hours to get him in the ambulance so sometimes they are just held up by difficult emergency situations. An hour later he was back to normal and has no memory at all of what happened before he was in the ambulance but I've never been so scared in my life.

This is definitely the case in my area and has been for many years. Unless there's a physical need for an ambulance, it's always much quicker here to drive or take a taxi.

Knock on effect though

This is BS. I am slim , eat very healthily, walk a lot etc but unfortunately do have a few chronic health issues through no discernible reason except bad luck. Yes, some people could do more to help themselves but even if you commit to a healthy lifestyle you can still develop health problems. Age is also a factor of course.

A zillion reasons - higher demand, lower supply, blockages in the system

• ageing population
• increasing calls for mental health crisis
• people unable to get GP appointments so getting sicker or more desperate
• More risk aversion and less resiliance for a lot of people (ie calling ambulances for things that don’t need them)
• misunderstanding priorities - ambulances are dispatched in the order of how fast it sounds as if you might die, not how much pain/distress you are in
• stupid ambulance/111 instructions not to make your own way to hospital even if it would be much quicker and safer than a long wait for an ambulance
• long arse-covering paperwork requirements meaning it can take longer to leave someone at home than take them in to hospital
• lower NHS spending so fewer ambulances (we’re on a no-overtime stretch at the moment and there was no recruitment this summer)
• hospitals unable to take patients off ambulances because a&e is full,
• because wards are full,
• because there aren’t the staff to discharge patients,
• because there aren’t places/care to discharge to

I could go on

Yep is the norm. I had an elderly lady fall outside my house this time last year. Blood pouring from her head and unable to get up. Turns out she had other medical conditions that could potentially be serious. I was reluctant to pull her up incase I made any of those conditions worse. 999 said they couldn't tell me when an ambulance could get there. It was dark and cold and she refused for me to take her to hospital. In the end I got her in my car and took her a couple of roads to her house. I rang her daughter and waited until she got there. I felt awful that she wasn't able to be checked out but what more could I have done. Paramedics couldn't get there to assess her and she refused me to take her to A&E.

A&e depts are packed as there are no beds on the wards due to the crisis In social care, no care packages.. no care home beds
So people medically fit for discharge can't leave the hospital
Meanwhile people stack up in a&e
Nurses can't take ambulance handover if there is no space to assess patient
So ambulance will have to wait at a&e for hours and hours

Mixed bag over the years

10 mins for child with anaphylaxis

About 20 mins for baby struggling to breathe

No ambulance available, and called us back after 30 mins to tell us to drive to the hospital- for a neighbour's child who had been exposed to a toxic chemical, but he was fairly stable

For a start people need to start paying for the cost of the ambulance so that the elderly stop using them as a taxi service.

Secondly, ramping needs to stop. If doctors can’t treat ambulance patients as they arrive then something serious needs to change in the ER.

Thirdly, patients should pay to be treated at hospital.

If it’s not a genuine life threatening emergency they should see an on-call GP who should charge for their time.

Doctors should be the ones triaging patients - not nurses. In my city there are at least four nurses when you walk into the ER. Then you get admitted to the waiting room where there are at least five but only two of them are actually doing any work.

I think there needs to be more nurse practitioners who can actually treat patients by performing stitches, swabbing for bacterial infections, taking bloods and ordering routine tests.

Too many people, not enough ambulances?

Where I live (not UK atm) there is a rescue service which one can join for roughly 30 pounds a year. Children and young people are free. Maybe the UK needs something like that?

We waited over 5 hours for an ambulance for MIL. We can't be sure how long she sat in it once she got to the hospital, but there was at least one shift change, so a different set of paramedics came and sat with her. It was at least 12 hours, when that ambulance couldn't go to anyone else's aid.

It seems to be a common problem which many people say is caused by the massive reduction in the number of hospital beds over recent years.

The systems are hugely struggling at the moment.

A major issue being things getting log jammed because of social care issues. Resulting in more demand on healthcare services, and people staying under hospital care longer than needed. Then the whole thing snarls up.

In practical terms, it’s likely to get faster access to hospital care if you can arrange your own transport. When making the decision on when to go, keep the backlog in mind. Eg. Amend asthma plan to 4 puffs then grab a neighbour. At 8 get in car and drive to hospital.

We are on the edge of a village east Sussex,last couple of years called 111,DH chest pain,I was nursing over 40 years, I did his obs,was pretty sure it wasn't cardiac in origin, but it wasn't improving.ambulance arrived very quickly. Me after COVID, central chest pain, radiating down my left arm, BP and pulse through the roof. Did 111, paramedic ambulance was outside while I was still on the phone! I worked in an ED for some years, and yes,a lot of people used the ambulances as a convenience, when it wasn't either an accident or emergency.

Wouldn't your baby have received treatment quicker if you'd driven to hospital?