Surprised by not being able to get ambulance

[FrenchFancie]

This is in no way to have a dig at the ambulance service or at the hospitals (but maybe slightly at the junior doctors strike) but I have been really surprised recently when, for the first time in aaages, I have had to call 999 twice, and on both occasions wasn’t able to get an ambulance.

firstly my daughter was having an asthma attack, and not responding to medication. After 10 reliever puffs we called, and were told it would be a 1-2 hour wait. So we stuffed her in the back of the car and drove like idiots to the local hospital instead, where she was seen straight away. But it was a scary midnight drive. Her asthma plan states to ring 999 after 10 puffs and the ambulance should attend within 10 minutes.

second was through work where a child was having an epileptic seizure and again, we were told it was an unknown wait time, possibly 1-2 hours.

both of these things I felt really scared about, wanting urgent professional help and support, but it wasn’t available. I know I’m not going to get an ambulance for an adult with broken ankle, but kids with quick onset, possibly life threatening conditions, I was shocked there was nothing available.

is this the same now everywhere? It’s been years since I had to call 999 (like 10 years) and got a quick response last time (daughter fell off changing table, was in London and overreacted to her banging her head but the crew were lovely).

I don’t blame the ambulance service or 999 operators - in fact on both occasions the operator sounded stressed and upset they couldn’t get me help.

what, if anything, can be done about this situation?

DS 11 was hit by a car a few months ago. He was lying in the road and we were told 90 mins for an ambulance.

He had an open fracture, quite a lot of blood and a (thankfully minor) head injury. I was stunned. We moved him and took him to hospital in the car. The NHS is literally dying in front of us.

My guess is she/they would have exaggerated their symptoms. Unfortunately ambulances are used as a taxi service.

Had similar with my husband recently re sepsis symptoms - he went downhill SO quickly and whilst they said we were the highest priority they didn’t have anything available and it was ~1 hour minimum wait. Drove him in and he was treated immediately and we were told it was a good job we didn’t wait for the ambulance.

Flip that round to a few years ago when I had my little one; I’d woken up with a bleed. Labour ward told me to come in and then rang me back and asked me to come in via ambulance. I’d JUST walked into the bathroom and my husband shouted up that they were there already

It’s the same every winter in my recent experience of trying to get ambulances for FIL with various serious issues- sepsis twice, and a rupturing stomach ulcer. Each time we were told to drive him in.

People don’t want to pay more tax so the system is run on a shoestring.

This may not be true for every ambulance service but for those using the MPDS dispatch protocols, age only affects priority in very specific circumstances (e.g. chest pain under 35 is lower priority than chest pain over 35 because it's statistically less likely to have a serious cause). There's nothing along the lines of prioritising or deprioritising someone because they're older; a clinician may review the call and upgrade if they think the patient's age makes their clinical need higher than the dispatch outcome, but that's it.

It was horrendous four years ago; I wouldn't go back into ambulance dispatch now.

My father in-law had a heart attack 2 weeks ago and there were no ambulances. No one would even speak to them on the phone, the 999 calll handler said someone would ring them back but no one did, despite them ringing 3 times.

If you have private health insurance do you get a special ambulance or the same as everyone else?

Watch the most recent series of Ambulance on iPlayer. It's in your neck of the woods.
There are fewer ambulances available each shift because they're queuing up outside hospitals, because A&E is full, because the wards are full, because there isn't enough social care available for those who need it to be safely discharged so are kept in.

Some reasons why ambulance aren’t always available to respond within the specified times……In no particular order….:-

People going to A&E with conditions that do not require emergency treatment and creating added pressure on a healthcare system that is needed for real emergencies……I have heard statements along the lines of ‘I’ve had a sore throat for a week’, ‘I cut my toe nails too short and they’re sore’, ‘I changed my laundry powder and I’ve got a rash’, !

Bed blockers…that being those patients waiting on discharge but need residential care for which assessment is required, a funding application to navigate, SS intervention, family reluctant or unable to provide support, lack of community support.

Seasonal pressures…..,that being accidents and injuries from RTC, slips trips and falls plus viruses which exacerbate an already stretched service.

Back log for handing over a patient at A&E due to the above because there’s no beds, no trolleys, staffing issues.

Staff sickness because they’re physically and mentally broken more often from abuse and assault by those they are trying to help.

People calling an ambulance because they think they will be seen as a priority in A & E……..that is a myth as every patient is triaged and treated accordingly, regardless of how they accessed the department.

But why would anyone want to be a policeman with all the abuse they get? There was a thread on here the other day by someone who said that their policeman partner was spat on by someone as she was worried about him catching something. And that was just spitting. He could have been stabbed or shot.

Paramedics are regularly abused as well.

You wouldn't want to do it, so why do you expect other people to?

We are paying lots of tax, but it is going to people on benefits who make not working a lifestyle choice.

It is also going to highly paid managers in the NHS who shouldn't be there.

@MyDeftDuck
*People going to A&E with conditions that do not require emergency treatment and creating added pressure on a healthcare system that is needed for real emergencies…**
In these circumstances I see no issue with the introduction of charges.

Back log for handing over a patient at A&E due to the above because there’s no beds, no trolleys, staffing issues.

NHS management issue.

Staff sickness because they’re physically and mentally broken more often from abuse and assault by those they are trying to help

If staff are abused, that's disgraceful but at my local ED, I have seen staff, nurses and admin in particular, shouting at and being unspeakably rude to patients far more than vice versa. In fact on a couple of occasions I'm surprised a member of staff didn't get thumped and had they been I'd have provided a witness statement in relation to the conduct that started it.

What really irks is when the scummy patient, or as you put it, potential "bed blocker" gets out of the third world waiting area which is standing room only, or the corridor, to the next waiting area where only 4 people are waiting and there are 6 or 7 staff, Drs and nurses, behind the desk, having a good old laugh and natter about their holidays. And when you get into cubicles, all you can hear are nurses nattering about their next break and cake.

Whilst I accept that not all patients use NHS services responsibly, those services are too often mismanaged and delivered with far less courtesy than it is reasonable to expect. Presumably because too many staff have zero reslect for patients. Respect works two ways.

If employees spoke to "customers" in the way NHS staff speak to patients, in my sector, they would be dismissed.

The NHS is broken and needs to be replaced with a social insurance system like that in Frqnce. Howevwr, I am not persuaded it will succeed because it will inherit the toxicity and dysfunctionality of existing NHS staff.

Why? So what is the point of paying for resident doctors if they don't do anything?

If it makes no difference whether or not they are on strike, then we should just sack them all now .

The call handler and their triage list gatekeep access to help. Yet still far too many people get ambulances that don't need them. We need an overhaul to look at whether a falls service could be useful, whether outside first aid posts for drunks could be helpful. Mental health emergencies is a whole other subject.
I had a text book heart attack a few weeks ago. My dh spent 15 minutes begging the call handler to send help. No way would he have got me downstairs and into a taxi at 2am.The pain and terror was something I will never get over.
The call handler decided I was having a panic attack (central crushing chest pain, radiating to jaw and left arm, pale, sweating, breathless). Apparantly I should have waited 2 hours and had sips of water.
Grudgingly the supervisor sent a first responder, who radioed for an ambulance and essentially saved my life. The paramedic said to dh that I was the only justified call out he had had that shift. People are dying and being left disabled due to the desperate situation the nhs and the ambulance service is in.

Yeah. It’s not just about wages. It’s about the fact that they’re aren’t jobs when they leave med schools 1000’s of pounds in debt.

I'm in Edinburgh and have had reason to call 999 for an ambulance 5 times within the past 3 years. The longest we've ever had to wait has been 15 minutes.

Biggest problem is people relying on ambulances when they could just use a car and take the patient to hospital themselves.

Unless the person can’t be moved or is literally dying I’d drive them.

I’m in a small town in Scotland and had my youngest son at the GP, the GP examined him and called an ambulance which showed up within 8 minutes.
We have the ambulance base in our town and it serves a few of the surrounding towns, so I guess it could take longer if a lot of people call but I guess being in a small town which has ambulances is actually a good thing as opposed to a big town/city with too much pressure on what’s available.

I also think we need a public information campaign about when you should and shouldn't call an ambulance.

My niece has called an ambulance 3 times in the last 2 years for a life threatening crisis related to an health condition and each time the ambulance was there within just a few minutes (Scotland). The paramedics can give her medication to stabilise her until admitted.

It is when she reaches hospital there are delays, spending hours sitting in ambulance waiting for space to get in, then sitting in chairs, or a trolley in A+E corridors.

I weigh fifteen stone. I eat quite healthily and I don't have knee pain but due to IBS I have to follow a low fibre diet which limits my choices. I eat better than many people who weigh less. I don't eat pastries or cake and only 85% chocolate. I don't eat any fried food. I only eat two meals a day. I try to walk every day, usually about 7000 steps. It really pisses me off how judgemental people are. My two brothers are thin, not because they have willpower but because they get less hungry than I do. It's been that way throughout our lives.

my dad is a retired paramedic. So many ambulance calls are not needed, that it affects people like you who genuinely need one.

Yes, this!

Private hospitals dont do emergency care

I can’t imagine not finding some other way to get a baby to hospital if they can’t breathe.