Surprised by not being able to get ambulance

[FrenchFancie]

This is in no way to have a dig at the ambulance service or at the hospitals (but maybe slightly at the junior doctors strike) but I have been really surprised recently when, for the first time in aaages, I have had to call 999 twice, and on both occasions wasn’t able to get an ambulance.

firstly my daughter was having an asthma attack, and not responding to medication. After 10 reliever puffs we called, and were told it would be a 1-2 hour wait. So we stuffed her in the back of the car and drove like idiots to the local hospital instead, where she was seen straight away. But it was a scary midnight drive. Her asthma plan states to ring 999 after 10 puffs and the ambulance should attend within 10 minutes.

second was through work where a child was having an epileptic seizure and again, we were told it was an unknown wait time, possibly 1-2 hours.

both of these things I felt really scared about, wanting urgent professional help and support, but it wasn’t available. I know I’m not going to get an ambulance for an adult with broken ankle, but kids with quick onset, possibly life threatening conditions, I was shocked there was nothing available.

is this the same now everywhere? It’s been years since I had to call 999 (like 10 years) and got a quick response last time (daughter fell off changing table, was in London and overreacted to her banging her head but the crew were lovely).

I don’t blame the ambulance service or 999 operators - in fact on both occasions the operator sounded stressed and upset they couldn’t get me help.

what, if anything, can be done about this situation?

I had some thing with a droswy child with rapid breathing 4 years ago during the summer time. 999 call handler told me she needed immediate medical attention but they couldn’t say when a paramedic would be able to come out and to put my child in the car and drive to A and E but don’t let her fall asleep. I had to stop several times to wake her up.

I don't think I would have rang for an ambulance in either case. Put in car is usually quicker.
The only time I have rang was for suspected heart attack. 5 hour wait.... So got help to put person in car....

a while back in town in the afternoon a man ran into a house in his car and then overturned. there was a rumour that he had had a medical incident before losing control of the car but he was injured. in the end they got him out of the car and was left on the roadside verge for 4 hours for an ambulance. this is worcestershire / shropshire border

Part of the problem is idiotic people calling for an ambulance when it’s not an emergency. A woman in our hobby group fell over but got up immediately. She had a couple of scrapes on her knees and elbow and it looked like she had broken her wrist. Her husband was going to take an hour to get to her. Her preferred option was to call for an ambulance. Fortunately she was persuaded not to.

Disgusting but not surprising.

Ds as a baby once took a funny turn while waiting at the GP surgery for his appointment. The GP called an ambulance straight away as his oxygen saturation dropped low and he started wheezing.

It took almost an hour for them to turn up. I could have got him to A&E within 20 mins but had to wait for the ambulance. As soon as he was in it they were giving him nebulisers and oxygen.

But people have always done that and they just don’t send ambulances.
It’s not like a taxi, you can’t just order one because you fancy it.

This is the issue nationwide .
They stay with the patients too long due to resource elsewhere .
The NHS is truly broken .
Family member very senior in the NHS advised all our family to get private healthcare and regular check ups to try to limit issues .
Very much preventive mode .
He is appalled about the waste of money in the service not the lack of money.

Ambulance crew have to wait to hand over patients. If A&E's are backed up then they can't accept new patients. Lots of reasons, lack of funding, A&E being unable to move patients to wards because they are backed up with elderly patients who can't be discharged into the community safely but no other options. More people ending up with acute medical conditions due to inability to see the gp due to how stretched those services are. People going to A&E for daft reasons or because they cannot access their GP. NHS 111 which is a blunt tool and often over zealous because of course with human life it is better to be safe than sorry. And then throw in a Dr's strike that would also make things worse.

I work for an ambulance service. We have been on at critical levels nearly constantly since mid November. Requesting staff overtime most days. It's been horrendous. Both those cases mentioned in OP would have been high priority but if we don't have the resources available, we just don't have them.

Two years ago, my brother woke up one morning to find he was having a stroke. His wife was told, when she rang for an ambulance, that it would be "at least two hours, maybe more". Fortunately, she was able to get him into the car and drive him there herself, where he was triaged straight through and treated appropriately.

Given how time-critical treating some conditions is, it's remarkable.

Well I've called 999 once and nobody answered. Was put through to an automated message saying call volumes were so high (someone did call me back within about 5 minutes)

But that was eye opening. And thank God it wasn't for an utter life threatening emergency.

DC1 was having febrile hallucinations / temp of 41c and we took him to A&E in a taxi.

On the flip side when my mum collapsed at home paramedics were in attendance very quickly, although unfortunately weren't able to resuscitate her but I can only imagine calling for ambulance in that situation and no-one answering. The call handler talked my sibling through CPR etc.

DH was unconscious last year after an accident and they arrived within 10 minutes, in a village and was impressed they were that quick. The only other time I have called an ambulance was when DS was a baby and was unresponsive, his airway was partially blocked due to horrific tonsil infection.

Its amazing the number of people who suddenly realise the NHS is broken when they need it. Usually the same people moaning about their taxes

There's probably tons of factors

Unfortunately, I've spent a bit of time with mum in this situation and the handover times are a big issue, so that's under resourcing at the hospital

The paramedics were amazing

They are also struggling with lots of things

The whole system needs to be looked at strategically

I also know someone with an open fracture who waited five hours and the person on the phone kept saying, can't someone drive him there? But who is going to move someone with an open fracture? I would say that's what we need an ambulance for, but he was conscious so he was not on the priority list. This was ages ago so it's going to be worse now.

It is the same in my area too and it is scary.
A colleague collapsed at work recently and the first aiders were told it would be at least an hour for an ambulance and “as she’s conscious again now” they’d be better off driving her to hospital themselves.
Also a couple of years ago my aunt had a mild stroke at home and again were told to give her aspirin and drive to hospital as it would be 1-2h for an ambulance.
A boy was injured at DDs school during PE rugby and ended up lying on the school field for hours before an ambulance came - they couldn’t move him because of risk of spinal injury.
No fault of the ambulance service or paramedics but something does need doing

It’s definitely the area. Because I myself had an asthma attack last week, my partner rang 999 and the ambulance cam within 10 mins.

Had the same experience - so scared that we may have made things worse.

Errr this is ill formed!! Handovers are taking much longer in A and E - it is definitely having an impact.

It’s not that there are fewer ambulances about, it’s that there are more patients, more elderly, more sick, more people unable to access gp so their condition worsens and requires ED. Ambulances are often held at the hospital as there’s no space to offload the patients as ED is full, because there’s no beds to admit patients from ED to, as there’s a backlog in discharges of people who are fit and don’t need to be there but they need either a bed in the community (such as temp or permanent care or nursing home), or social support at home such as a stair lift, hospital bed, carers etc, not only is there limited access to this, a lot of it is means tested or costs and this takes a while to figure out who gets it funded or partially funded, or if the patient or family are to pay. Families have up to 100 days to find a care home, you’d be amazed home many wait until day 100 to confirm the home. Then the discharge papers and meds are only done after morning round, jobs etc so often don’t get to pharmacy until 4pm, lots of care homes stop accepting patients after a certain time which results in another nights stay.

it’s not really too many people coming in the front door, inappropriate attends get turned around or sign posted to other resources much more than ever before. It’s that not enough are being discharged and clogging up the back door!!

We waited for almost three hours for an ambulance after an 84 year old relation slipped and hit his head hard. He's on blood thinners. After that time on a cold floor, being told not to move him, he had four weeks in hospital.

Oh my! My DM was often one of those poorly people in the ambulance and then corridor queues. I so pleased she will never have to suffer again. I hope your relative is soon helped.

No, they've drafted in consultants and other senior medics.
The waiting time at my local A&E has actually been lower in the past few days, although that may be coincidental.

For a fracture that kept me in hospital for 4 months I waited in a city centre location for 3.5 hours on the ground outside in winter unable to move - blood and bone marrow pouring out.
For every vote for austerity there must be a quantifiable number of excess and unnecessary deaths..decades of cuts and privatisation...we are renting our hospitals at huge expense ...how could it be otherwise?
I support the Drs £16-25 an hour to save lives? £120,000 student death. 10,000 jobs whilst we've trained 30,000 Drs is a national scandal

Ambulance handover times are often shorter during the strikes. The flow through the hospital is better or the same as usual too as there are senior decision makers present at all times. Where the strikes really impact is outpatient appts etc.

Ambulance wait times are shocking. Can’t believe the wait on your child’s asthma attack, that must’ve been really scary. Unfortunately the NHS cannot cope with the volume of patients. You can throw millions at it and it won’t make a difference. It’s not sustainable but the alternative would likely be worse. The NHS needs rebuilding from the ground up, there’s so much waste. I can think of a lot of roles which could be cut but they cut the wrong ones. They makes changes frequently and never consult the staff working within the area of change; it’s so frustrating. I’ve been nursing for 20 years and it’s always been like this; so much ineffectual change.

I'm going to agree with pp, it's area dependent. An ambulance was called for an elderly neighbour last week and it arrived in 10 minutes!