Social housing on new build estates

[pangeapanda]

I’m absolutely not looking for a bun fight on council housing tenants, we’re classed as living in affordable housing (shared ownership).

We live on a new build estate, it’s a mix of outright owned/mortgaged, shared ownership & social housing. From what I understand, a certain percentage of new homes have to be allocated for affordable housing or council housing. I imagine they’re moving away from building entirely socially housed ‘council estates’ now?

Half of the estate is houses, a line of part owned properties then quite a few blocks of social housing apartments. I guess my question is, why do they segregate the council tenants from the home owners? I thought they’d be more likely to pepper them throughout the estate now to avoid pockets of antisocial behaviour.

There’s a clear divide between the estate and one side is noticeably less nice. At the same time, some of the houses sell for nearly 500k so people might be apprehensive, rightly or wrongly, about buying where there may be a lot of turnover or perceived antisocial behaviour.

Is there a reason they lump all the affordable housing together then? And should it be considered a good thing?

It might be down to maintenance of the shared outdoor spaces once the properties are being lived in?

It's possible that during construction the materials for the different 'phases' (different styles of house) are supplied in bulk and having them all spread all over the site all the time is not practical?

I and hubby have a house developer company

People who buy do not usually want to live next to rented property and will pay a lot less for it or choose to buy elsewhere.

Social housing is often built to a lesser spec and does not look the same (we get paid less for social housing units than private) and as a developer you do not want that as a housing mix

It's largely the builder's decision, and is probably commercially driven - many people would be put off by social housing tenants next door.

It can also make housing management easier - all the maintenance and works will be arranged by the registered provider for those houses, it's more straightforward if they are in one place, and they can also put concierge on site if necessary (not likely in standard housing though).

I hadn’t even thought of this. The estate was built in phases, the homeowners were moved in first, then we moved in, then part owned flats and the social housing flats are now gradually being filled. Hence not realising until checking the site map & plots.

I thought there were rules when these housing estates are built that they can't single out the SH homes? (I may be totally wrong). On our estate, there's no way to tell who owns and who is in SH (me), as all the houses and flats are the same.

I actually live very close to an housing complex which was built in the late 90s and was one of the first of its kind where social housing and homeowners are mixed.

Unlike the newer developments in the area, homeowners could be living next door to social housing tenants. There is no difference in the size or quality of the properties except for a tiny few 2 bed flats who have an ensuite and are only privately owned.

For nearly 3 decades, there has been mass tension between the two groups. In short, the homeowners are aggrieved that they have to live in close proximity to social housing residents in a similar quality of home.

Another issue is that the homeowners want to control how communal space outside is used whereas the social housing tenants do not. They reject any idea that involves a lack of free use of communal spaces.

The newer developments separate the homeowners from the social housing tenants, make sure their properties are a bit nicer than the social housing ones, and then the homeowners are less likely to harass the council and said neighbours for simply living in their allocated homes.

This is interesting too, thank you. What might a lesser spec look like? Is it purely superficial?

I’m friendly with a lady who lives in one of the council blocks and it’s slightly more basic. Her skirtings, doors & door handles are different, no extractor or integrated fridge/oven etc. Are they built any different structurally or is it just the finish?

When we owned our new-build home, the development included social-housing properties just across a small footpath from us. I can’t even describe how much antisocial behaviour we, and our neighbours, had to put up with. It came from adults and, unfortunately, from their children as well.

We had constant late-night shouting, full-on arguments, and domestic incidents that would spill out into the street. The kids would knock on people’s windows at all hours, and any attempt to say something was met with verbal insults.

The fronts of those houses were regularly in a terrible state too; mattresses, broken furniture, and all sorts of rubbish left out in the carport area.

Our road was a circular layout around a small central park, and our home was right in the middle. The social-housing properties were on our left and fully privately owned homes on our right and, unfortunately, all the issues were always coming from the left side. It was incredibly frustrating when all we wanted was to enjoy the home we had worked hard to buy. Never again house next to social housing….

I'd say it would probably put off mortgaged tenants.

I live in such a block and to be honest the social flats have had drug dealers and there's an alcoholic living in one of them. They are on the ground floor which I am sure adds to them problem as kids can go and easily pick up drugs.

But at the same time I wouldn't want that on my floor.

I think on the whole it is better as we all tend to complain if there are issues, the police listen etc.

This is mainly what I was wondering.

I’m on mat leave so I’m spending a good deal of time walking around my estate pondering I’d tried to google it but not much was coming up and I thought it’d be more typical now to mix everyone together.

The site map is pretty clear on who which houses are allocated to ‘affordable housing’. They don’t distinguish between the council houses and part owned though. I know which blocks are because I talk to most of the neighbours😂

^which in turn benefits all residents including the social ones.

On our estate you could definitely tell which were the SH homes - they are not the odd house inserted here and there but tend to be a whole street. The porch outside lights are a give away, but as people move in they tend to change the lights pretty quickly - maybe to look more like the private houses?

I am very lucky - I live in a lovely pocket of our estate that has 3 branches to the road and some are SH, some are Shared ownership and some are private rented and some are owned. I would say it is the private rented that look the most scruffy but the people are lovely and in fact everyone gets on well! If there are any snobby attitudes I have never heard them and there is a genuine community feel.

Do you think the mortgaged tenants are all drug free?

This used to be my job 😀

in many estates, social housing properties are peppered about. However there are estates where separate tenures are more segregated

this is usually-

product mix- social housing will be a different spec from market sale. So for example I recall an (extreme) estate were the large properties sold for £4m - they just needed to have a certain build and size or drive/ garden to command that.

ease- in a large estate it might be about things like services (window cleaning by landscaping etc) as above

many organisations have been found to be ghettoising social housing (the idea of “poor doors”) although this is generally frowned upon

The owned/mortgaged houses on my estate that are a couple of streets away (and houses cost a couple hundred grand more) definitely have more drug issues and domestic issues than my lovely little SH road

In most estates you’d never know which houses are which. This has been the way social housing has been funded for decades, it’s not new.

if mortgaged customers don’t like it they can fuck off. There are plenty more where they came from 😁

There are numerous forums discussing whether to purchase particular plots on new build estates - everyone definitely knows which are which.

We unfortunately have a similar issue. It’s not all of the council tenants at all, the majority are ‘normal’ working families. But a select few of them aren’t just a little inconsiderate, they’re a pain to live near.

If I knew what I do now, we’d have never have bought here. We’ve had three police raids in the space of a week, fag butts, beer cans and furniture everywhere, neighbours having drugs dropped off at all times of the day and night (I hear the bike and I’ve seen them exchanging). We have music blaring early Sunday morning and late into the night, mopeds being driven up the path. One particular neighbour sits on her balcony all day smoking and shouting at her other half down the phone, then come 4pm she’ll be calling her kids the C word for all to hear. The inside of the block has been absolutely trashed too, only a year old.

We don’t own outright, but saved up quite hard for our deposit to avoid fully renting. I grew up on a rough council estate & my mother still lives there. As I said, it’s not the majority but a small minority ruin it.

On my new build estate the housing association are two blocks of flats, at either end of the development but not right at the ends. There are some shared ownership which are a row of 4 next to the flats either end. There are some lovely people in the flats, but the bad outweigh the good. We have drug dealers, thefts, 5 police cars pulled up the other week due to guns and raided the flats, alcoholics, smashed windows, domestic abuse, 100s blunt ends thrown out the windows into the road, music blaring constantly. Always from the flats. Housing association won't do anything about it as they say they are housing difficult to house tenants. Yes thanks, that ruin the lives of people who have worked hard to buy a nice little house for themselves and can't relax in their own homes.

Luckily I am tucked away a little so it doesn't affect me as much but I feel for those next to the flats, some of whom have resigned to moving but struggling to sell. The nice people in the flats are now getting exchanges as they have had enough too. But nothing gets done.

I haven't noticed a difference in quality but then the quality of the kitchens they put in the owned houses were very poor anyway!

Sometimes they single themselves out because I the appearance of their properties. There are some houses near us where the residents have just left their properties without maintenance. The front gardens are overgrown and neglected and bins and rubbish strewn around.

It’s only a few, but it’s disappointing that they aren’t taking care of their homes. Neighbours get fed up when their neighbours can’t be bothered .

Is this all you can afford though?

Yes quite.

I think the approach has switched back to the affordable housing being built in separate areas of a new development now, certainly all the plans I have seen recently take this approach.

This sounds a lot like our estate, even down to the row of four shared ownership. We’ve also had thefts, a drug dealer and raids due to guns recently. A few of the families in our flats are also looking for exchanges too.

I live in SH in a “mixed” road of homeowners, half buy and full SH.

IME it’s a good idea to mix because although we in SH do get a bit envious of the big houses with gardens, and our association is slow to repair, we appreciate the nice peaceful environment we get to live in.

I lived on a new build estate when I was younger, my first house. It was opposite the social housing streets.

We had no end of trouble. It was all new, and within a year, the social housing part looked like a hell hole. There would be people screaming at each other in the street, the police were always out. We had a hard time selling too as everytime we had a viewing, the kids from there would be out jumping over fences and shouting, the adults shouting at them out of windows.