Do you have someone in your life that will just argue over any comment?

[Hellodarknessyouoldprick]

I’m really laid back, so I just say things like “quite right” and smile but SIL is just impossible sometimes.

I went to a gig at an old haunt of mine last night, SIL popped round this morning and I made a joke about how there are items in my medicine cabinet older than some of the other people there.

”There aren’t though, are there? You don’t have items 18 years old. If you did, they would make you sick.”

The tiler is here, doing some work on the kitchen, we were talking about the tiles we chose, again, I was making a joke about them being easier than the hexagonal ones I originally wanted.

”They aren’t really though, are they? He’s still having to make cuts for the pattern. Anyway, are you saying he’s not good enough to do anything more complicated?”

They were both this morning. She only popped in to drop off a birthday card for dh.

MIL finds it really bloody exhausting too, but she said she’s been trying to pull her up on it for 40 years, so now she just zones out as well. Dh just sort of glazes over and says he thinks about work instead while she’s talking.

It’s everything! Christmases are just one big round of fun, “that’s not the nicest scarf ever though is it, dad? You’re telling me that M&S is nicer than Hermes? That would be news to them.”

Just a lighthearted thread by the way. The woman was an angel when I was really ill and we adore her, just wondering if anyone else had a family member who could pick a fight in an empty room?

@Hellodarknessyouoldprick Yes. It’s the twisting and only partially listening. It’s beyond annoying. Then the lecturing.

I'm glad that you said that she's lovely in every way except for this because that sounds kind of exhausting.

I do know people like this, who insist that everything that is said has to be literally in factually correct, and you wonder sometimes, "do they realize how annoying they are to everyone else"?
Like people who always have to have the last word no matter what the situation is, it's almost a joke once you realize their pattern, it's frustrating, it's annoying, it can be infuriating, or, do your best just to smirk and either find a way to avoid their trigger (or, If you're feeling a bit delightfully cruel, play with it in a way that drives them up the wall)

I tend to use exaggeration in my speech especially when I am telling a story, I feel that it is generally understood to be an exaggeration for comedic/dramatic effect, like if I was telling a story about how I went outside to feed the birds and I threw a bucket of bird seed out and all of a sudden a million starlings flew out of the bushes at me obviously it's not a million, it's just part of how you're telling the story, but some people will immediately jump down your throat to point out the inaccuracy of a literal million birds coming out of the bushes and you just smile and just continue on.

As a PP suggested, she may well be seeking a dopamine hit. It's something some people do as part of their autism profile.

Yes, I get that.

But not everyone has autism. Some people just are difficult. Not saying that people with autism are difficult, but you know what I mean.

It’s like no one can act like a prick these days without someone seeking a diagnosis for them.

It really winds up dh. He works in SEN and says it really belittles people who do actually need a diagnosis and help. His sister is just a bit of a wanker.

But honestly, how do you know? How does your DH know that she doesnt have undiagnosed neurodiversity - or traits that way? He might work in SEN but our own birth family patterns are notoriously hard to unpick as they seem normal to us.

Of course not everyone has autism. But it's really unusual to have the profile you describe, the mix of empathy and literalness, the kindness and contrarianism, and not have something interesting going on, or traits in that direction.

It feels like you are replying to everyone on here with a "No, she's definitely not autistic" and almost getting the same kick out of repeating it as you say she gets from contradiction!

I'm curious what you get out of holding onto the view that she is neurotypical. What worries you about maybe admitting she has some neurodivergence? Why are you adamant it's not that? If she is a late diagnosed mildly autistic high functionijg woman, this doesn't magically mean you have to put up with her being annoying, or that she deserves anything special - it just gives you a useful lens to apply. Maybe some insight into what the world looks like from her perspective. You say you love her - this might allow you naturally to be less irritated with her behaviour, and find more constructive ways to help her amend it.

It’s not autism. The world and his wife use this for excusing poor behaviour. It’s just not thinking about others.

Look, I don’t actually care that much to be honest.

Maybe she’s autistic, maybe she isn’t. I’m certainly not worried about it, why would I be?

It’s really not that deep. I just think she can act like a prick at times. I wouldn’t give a shit if she was autistic.

At the moment though, she’s probably one of the only women age 40+ that I know who isn’t trying to get a diagnosis of some sort. It sometimes grates on me (and certainly dh, doing what he does for a living), that every bit of behaviour is our down to something. Half the women I went to school with are constantly posting on FB that they think have autism or ADHD. Good for them, if it helps, but it’s sometimes it’s used to excuse behaviours and thats really detrimental to people who are actually ND.

But honestly, I don’t care enough to think about it. I just find her annoying at times when I want a nice family meal without her wanting to pick fault in everything anyone says.

That's really insulting to those of us who have lived with Autism, or loved an Autistic (or other neurodivergent) person for years. There is no excuse for poor behaviour in the ND world. Of course one could argue about what exactly constitutes poor behaviour, but I am inclined to put at the top of my list, making another person feel uncomfortable.

Most autistic people myself included do tell people and have told you on this thread that her behaviour is nothing to do with ND and people can just be fucks but your comment about half the population having diagnosis of something or other boils my blood. Sick of the ND bashing on here I really am.

I am not bashing anyone. Quite the opposite. I hate that when anyone displays difficult behaviour, it’s put down to ND. That’s unfair to people who are ND. It belittles struggles that people go through.

I am sorry if you took my comment the wrong way. I just know a lot of women my age who are wanting a diagnosis now, for perfectly normal behaviours.

Your H might have been personally burned too often to see her with a clinical eye. Sometimes those closest to the elephant see only the smallest part of the elephant.

A person who exhibits dickish behavior once or twice is a dick. When it's consistent for years and friends have been lost or family members alienated, you have to consider a broader picture, and if not autism then perhaps a PD.

Exactly. People who behave in the same way, consistently, for their entire lives, despite being corrected and challenged, will have something else going on - it may not be autism but your insistence that it can’t be is quite bizarre, IMO.

I would also say that your DH is not best-placed to decide whether his sister is autistic or not.

@Hellodarknessyouoldprick maybe not you but the amount of posters using nd as some kind of reason is annoying. I understand more people are ignorant and would prefer to label everyone with an nd and then moan that its very 'popular' now but it really isnt and is still undiagnosed even in women of a certain age. Some people are simply nasty. End of. No excuses needed just nasty fuckers.

Are some people "just nasty"? Without having either some level of mental health challenges, some adverse childhood experiences, some undiagnosed struggles? Moving away from the specific case od your SIL for a minute - do we really think in this day and age that it's a reasonable and fair assumption, with all we know of psychology, to think that some folk are just horrible through and through?

We can deplore people's choices, we can disagree with their approach, we can say they lack skill, we can observe they lack insight, we can say their behaviour consistently leads to harm or bad outcomes - I personally wouldn't feel comfortable now just deciding someone was horrible. (Not in the normal run of life, the straw man/argument ad absurdem of child abusers is always available).

My friend is JUST like this, but oddly didn't used to be, only in the last 5 years or so. I come away from our meet ups feeling really irritated. I think she wonders why I'm not so keen to meet up any more...