How do we know the extra welfare payments for multiple children will be spent on the children .

[hattie43]

A genuine question really . I don’t begrudge the children and I’ll save my irk for the parents but how do we know the extra money will be used to support the children in the right way giving them a better start and turning them into these honerable citizens. It worries me that the kids with feckless parents are going to be given much more money but the parents spend it on themselves not the kids . Just because these parents have more money doesn’t mean they’ll use it responsibly or change the attitudes they may pass down .

But you also have to maintain an altruistic approach, otherwise you are being patriarchal and controlling of the poor.

I think common sense easily answers why they’re not falling over themselves with readily displayed gratitude like a Victorian orphan. However I would challenge why poor people can’t eat unhealthily if they chose? Who are we to control their choices? People who aren’t poor aren’t controlled.

When I've been struggling financially in the past I would buy things that would last the month ie noodles packet pasta frozen stuff etc. Was worse when I didn't have a freezer

This policing of food pisses me off as well. I’ve got a friend who works in research for a space agency. He’s very highly educated. Speaks all over the world. Absolutely loaded as well. He lives off ready meals and stuff from the corner shop. Not because he’s poor, uneducated or doesn’t have the time, but because he wants to. If he lived on a sink estate on benefits, he’d be looked down on. But he doesn’t, so people just laugh and call him eccentric when he’d rather eat a pack of Doritos than eat a meal.

Anyway, we had a community scheme like that set up where I live now. It lasted a week before it was burgled, all the frozen meat was nicked. It was a really shit idea in this area, everyone said it would last a week before that happened.

And some people are stuck in a bed and breakfast room, with 3 kids and a kettle.

I’m not saying they don’t want the best. But it’s a food bank for people who are a lot of the time in a dire situation. Needs must.

Who knows... 🤷🏻‍♀️

but given the asda is a 10 min walk from the school and the women working at the school felt compelled to make a sandwich / lunch pack production line and hand deliver them daily for months because their mothers and fathers couldnt be fucked to A. Feed their children themselves or B. walk to the school to collect food for their children
... i think its fair to assume they weren't all selling the vouchers at face value to their mum and buying their child a nutrious lunch from the local tesco/ sainsbo's a la @GovernmentFundedSteak

💯. Similarly I have a friend who eats out in luxury restaurants at least 4 nights a week, I dread to think of the calories, fats and alcohol coursing through his system. People don’t even know about people like him because it’s so outside of their realm experience and it’s too frightening for bootlickers to waste time online slagging off a rich person

But those parents have bigger issues than finances.

A good parent ensures their child's needs are met, even if that's in an incredibly basic way. Extra money makes this easier.

It'such easier to hide a lack of needs being met with money, but it does still happen.

I believe OPs concern would largely relate to a minority with substance abuse issues

I’d rather see more invested via schools. I don’t think schools should be running on shoe string budgets when they could be the hub to make investments in children. Why is the school food budget per kid so low? I moved one of mine to a private school and she noted how much better the food was. Lots of fresh fruit and veg, better quality meat etc (and if a 9 year old can tell the difference must have been obvious). But I am paying significantly more. Her primary was something like 2.60 a day and I’m paying more like £6.00 for lunches. why can’t the budget for meals for all kids in school rise?

Exactly, a minority.

We can't punish all families for the actions of a few.

It won't. I'm happy to be proven wrong but I expect we will still be talking about children living in poverty next year. Lots of money gets focused on these kids from different agencies already, giving more money won't help, the only thing that would help would be giving them different parents but this is to controversial for society.

Let’s also look at what they mean - they are going to lift 450k children out of low relative income. That’s measured at 60% of the median income.

so what is going to happen to the median?

Personally, I think, if parents have children they can't afford then they care more about themselves than the children in the first place. So I don't see why giving them rewards for parenting children they can't afford will suddenly make them good parents.

Not saying poor people are bad parents. But I only had two kids because that's what I can afford... .thinking of the kids not myself.

While this is a laudable point of view, my point is should Comedycook have £170 left over to decide to spend on ,after children are provided for and bills are paid? She ( assuming) has chosen weightloss injections, she could have chosen redecorating the lounge as the children will benefit from an attractive environment or buying a pet as the children will benefit from emotional connection. Should benefits provide essentials plus a spare £170 a month? Where is the incentive to work to earn those nice extras?

When the 2 child cap came in, the reported outcomes were that child poverty went up.

Not that nail bars closed down in droves, or the sale of big tv's and lager went down exponentially.

Some people need to step away from Facebook and the Daily Mail - one story of someone's cousins-mother-in-law's-neighbour does not make data

As a working parent, £20 a week (or would it be £13.70?) is not an incentive for me to have another child. Because I still have to pay nursery fees of £1.2k for that child.

This is not incentivising working people to have children

@blastfurnace , that is an excellent idea! I’m pretty certain that those who are already spending the money on their children would be happy with this arrangement.

Yes we will love having to pay for school shoes with a government voucher

@WhiteCatmas , I think we do! That’s OUR money we worked bloody hard to earn. If I am to be expected to contribute between another 6 to ten thousand pounds a year I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to know that it’s being used for the purpose the chancellor sited when she took it from me.

That's Child Benefit (previously known as Family Allowance).
That has nothing to do with the cap on the child element part of UC (which is what is being changed).
Two completely different things.

No it isn't.

They tried it with the healthy start vouchers - could only be used on fruit, veg and milk. Lots of shops refused to take them, meaning poor families had to travel (cost implications) to shops that would. Some shops would limit the number of vouchers they took a day, meaning some families would pay for travel and still not be able to use them. Then you had unscrupulous shops who would take the vouchers and charge a top up or even ones who would use for payment for other things like fags and booze.

Not to mention the stigma attached with government vouchers. I mean seriously, a family with 2 parents earning 45k in professional jobs such as doctors and social workers being expected to use vouchers because some people don't trust them to them to spend it correctly? Ludicrous.

What is being changed with the child element of UC ?

I got pregnant when I was 15 and it wasn’t my parents fault at all unless you lock your kid in a tower like rapunzel it could happen to anyone. But I agree with what your saying no young girl gets pregnant for a life on benefits it’s funny how everyone moans about teen mums but the parents I know with 4+ kids expecting taxpayers to fund them are in their 30s/40s (and started in their 20s or 30s)

Fair enough. I suppose some women may just get conditioned into the lifestyle

Oh I see, that's fair, poor people shouldn't have a penny left to CHOOSE what do to with. You don't get choice, lower income families. Take the food you're given, pay your bills and wait for next month!

I'm assuming the weight loss injections aren't at the expense of a house that is fit to live in. I'm also assuming that Comedycook/anyone doing the same will cost the NHS far far less over their lifetime because they're investing in their own health now. She's not spending money getting her eyebrows done (not that I'm saying that isn't a wise way to spend money!) she's getting healthier