How do we know the extra welfare payments for multiple children will be spent on the children .

[hattie43]

A genuine question really . I don’t begrudge the children and I’ll save my irk for the parents but how do we know the extra money will be used to support the children in the right way giving them a better start and turning them into these honerable citizens. It worries me that the kids with feckless parents are going to be given much more money but the parents spend it on themselves not the kids . Just because these parents have more money doesn’t mean they’ll use it responsibly or change the attitudes they may pass down .

Very few people just live only on benefits.
Most are working.

Blimey. Show me the £100 Malta holidays as I could do with a bit of sun.

To be fair, my son's school also gave Asda vouchers during Covid. I sold them to my mum for face value.

Why? Because I dont live near Asda, it was 3 bus rides away. They couldn't be used online. And I had a delivery pass with Morrisons.

But the money I exchanged them for went on the children.

That is the problem with vouchers. They need to be for shops that people can actually get too.
But even if it was a multi purpose card that in theory can be used anywhere there will always be some shops that refuse them for random reasons.

The winter fuel allowance? They got c£200 each. Obviously, it didn’t pay for the whole holiday 😂 but yes, the week wasn’t very much. About £300 each iirc.

Exactly. Plus poor people are allowed treats! Heck sometimes we'd get a 'posh picnic' from M&S! But then there's no way to know if my wages or the top up UC paid for it!

That’s not really the problem with vouchers. The problem is they are a patriarchal system based on othering and humiliation of the poor.

confident, well supported children do well at school and become productive members of society. Not sure that government cheese supports that.

Some people will want single mums to post their spending on Facebook so we can decide if they should be allowed any help

I think the argument that the child benefit is ring fenced when it is paid to families would be a good, it would mean the money was spent on items for children, however the practicalities of that would be so difficult that I understand it is probably not feasible. We all have choices and the choice to have more children is the same regardless of your income, what is happening is those who are responsible look at what is practical and their finances. If you are so reliant on child benefit then you should be thinking you can't afford more children - the benefits before this change were not saying no children, they just limited the benefits at two.

Well yes....
That's why I think vouchers are a ridiculous system and a bit patronising.

But why should you spend it directly on kids? If they have their uniform etc then doesn’t it make sense you spend it where you need it ie on electricity or council tax or rent or the family car?

what absolute nonsense to say it needs to be ring fenced for things that only children need directly.

@attichoarder but what counts as "items for the children" ?
You can't break down a family budget and their purchases in that much depth - it's impossible.

Vouchers are a dumb idea for so many reasons. If my child needs shoes can I use my voucher in clarkes, or only Tesco? What about if the corner shop has a deal that makes something worth picking up. Can I spend a voucher there? Is it going to limit my brands so Tesco value only, or can I decide how to budget them?

Plus even benefit claimants are people who deserve dignity.
Yes sure. Some are spending money on nails, hair, botox etc. But the vast majority of single mums i know are just scraping by!

That's when it started, early 80s. In previous years the parents of young single pregnant girls were expected to provide for them, then things changed, benefits and social housing were provided, young women were jumping aboard the bandwagon knowing full well the state would feed and them and their offspring. Why work when you can pop out a few sprogs, usually with multiple fathers from short relationships.
So the cycle repeats itself, now a third generation of kids, all supported by the ever dwindling number of people who actually work and make sensible decisions

I'll get my coat........🤣

Tbf, it wouldn't surprise me if some stats did show that.

The cap was brought in because Channel 4 and others got the public riled up with programmes like Benefits Street, Benefits Britain etc. Showing people with loads of kids and 'earning' more than viewers did. People got angry, not unlike the current rhetoric around immigration.

The cap came in and I'm sure it was a shock for a lot of families. And it probably did affect poverty stats in the immediate.

I don't agree with it being lifted, but I don't think it's going to be as 'lucrative' for families as some (many) posters are making out. There were already exemptions where the cap didn't apply, and let's be honest, the more kids you had, the more likely one of them would qualify for the exemption. So I don't think it's going to be a huge sudden windfall for most, nor really encourage 'breeding' as some posters call it.

Yes I acknowledge that it would be difficult and impractical, an extra child doesn’t add a huge amount to electricity or gas but admittedly the food bill will rise. Whilst I think it would be good in theory to ring fence I don’t believe it can be done.

When I lived in London, I was a claiming top up housing benefit. I wouldn’t have been able to afford to rent anywhere otherwise. I was working full time, but rent was 2k a month (not a mansion, it was a damp hovel with an awful landlord).

If you look at the statistics, most people who claim benefits are working. Their work just doesn’t pay them enough to live in many parts of the country.

I left London in the end and moved to a much cheaper part of the country. Now I own a home and receive no benefits- but not everyone can do that. And what if everyone did? Who would do all the jobs?

I was already working 40 hours a week. It was just hideous housing costs.

As an aside, I left London 6 years ago. My old house there is up for rent again. Still a fucking hovel but it will now set you back £3,200 a month for the privilege of living there. Utter madness.

To be fair, government vouchers never worked like that 😂 you used to have milk tokens for example. They don’t relate to specific shops. In many countries they relate to specific products ie only the cheapest shoes, which is another way of othering the poor.

If by saying - educated families should be encouraged and financially supported to have more children as they are more likely to produce tax payers is "eugenics", then I am completely in agreements with eugenics.

Is that a joke? You are saying tax payers are the most valuable people in society?

wtf is wrong with this country.

Can I suggest everyone reads Comedycook’s post at 7:22 @Comedycook
Blatantly thinking the state should provide enough so they have £170 a month left over for weightloss jabs. Thinking this is absolutely fine, you’re naive to think everyone on benefits spends the money on essential bills.

"Milk Tokens" have because the Healthy Start card (I think it's called) which is meant to be for milk (or formula?) and fruit/veg.
Unfortunately there are some awkward shopkeepers that won't take them for random reasons.

They can be reported. It wasn’t a blocker to the system. Either way, I’m not in favour of vouchers just pointing out it’s very easy to avoid the “I’ll have to go to a certain shop and don’t have one nearby” argument.

To be honest the vouchers for specific shops thing only came in during COVID as it was something that needed to be organised quickly.

How am I saying they are the most valuable people in society.

I just believe that the Gov needs to do more to support these families to have more children as those children are more likely to be in employment when older. Stopping child benefit at £60k, and childcare support at £100k is making these earners think twice before having more children.

Maternity leave for a high earner is a huge drop in salary which is putting off women from having more children or children at all, especially if you have other childcare bills, a high mortgage to pay etc.