Farage’s racism

[CuriousKangaroo]

I haven’t yet seen a post about this story: Twenty people allege he has a racist past. He denies it. Who’s telling the truth about Farage’s schooldays? | Nigel Farage | The Guardian

Farage no longer categorically denies these incidents, and is now trying to fudge things by saying he didn’t mean any harm and it was a long time ago - presumably because he knows it is true and realises that 20 separate people saying it means only the truly deluded wouldn’t believe he was a racist.

But what I am interested in is does this actually assist his election chances? We already know that many of his supporters are racists - does it actually work for him that this blatant racism from him shores up their support? Are they secretly (or perhaps not so secretly in some cases) pleased?

And what do those of you who are Reform supporters but believe yourself not be racist think? Does it make you change your mind about him or Reform?

I’m sure plenty others have replied to you. I haven’t read the full thread but I couldn’t just pass this by without comment, though I expect that’s what you were hoping.

He was 18 and openly cultivated this as part of his personality. I suspect you know this very well. I find it appalling that some can be an apologist for such fucking odious behaviour.

It’s not just a “bit of casual racism” that might have been common at the time(although I have to say not in my circles)like watching Love Thy Neighbour or talking about the Pxxi Shop. It’s singing a song about marching people into gas chambers. It’s saying things that were so extreme that a teacher alerted the Headmaster and questioned his suitability to be a prefect.
As for the “he’s 61- people are different now”-have you seen the age profile of some of the current anti immigrant marchers?

You are probably right about the impact.

I don’t agree that it is a non-story though. As I mentioned up thread, it’s notable that something like this would have been a resigning/sacking matter for at least the last 20 years.

It’s also helpful to have concrete evidence of his racism for those who flatly deny he is racist and say that he, and they, only care about immigration.

Nigel farages grandparents were German immigrants. I'm just thinking about that whilst reading this thread.

almost everyone in a school playground 50 years ago would have

Bullshit. I was at school then and never heard any - thank god!!

I'm the same age as Farage. What he said and did is far beyond the casual use of words in the past that we don't use now. He could easily say that he now recognises that it was wrong etc but he doesn't. Sadly he knows that his supporters won't care. It disgusts me. I'm so sorry for all of you who have experienced racism.

I'm not 30 either, I'm in my 60s and at no point in my life has it ever been considered a joke to hiss in a Jewish person's ear to signify the gas chambers, inform them "Hitler was right" and suggest that they wanted to do the same to black and Asian people.

It's disgusting, antisemitic/racist bullying and for all Farage minimising by saying that it was "49 years ago" (making him 12), the incidents described in the Guardian piece you refuse to read make it clear he was 16-18.

Huh. One of 'those' Christians. The kind that give Christians and Christianity a very bad name.

I dislike him, and dislike what’s being reported.

I also think we need to judge politicians on now, not primarily on their youths.

That’s the way we approached the (not small) group of senior Labour figures in the Blair govt who had supported explicitly totalitarian regimes and figures when they were students.

I don’t think expressing support (even jokingly) for Nazi policies is a trivial matter and I don’t think expressing support for the USSR or Che Guevara or Mao is either. What matters is what those people, as mature adult politicians, believe and do now.

Two difference I see that if anything make me think Young Farage-type crimes are the less awful of the two awful things: at least in my experience the tiny handful of students I knew who would say Nazi-adjacent things were doing so to shock, whereas the tiny handful of students who supported totalitarian left regimes meant it in dead earnest. And there has (thankfully) been no pop-culturification of rightist horrors in the way that there has been of leftist ones. There is and was no real centre-right group of people who say “well, Hitler had the right ideas but went about it in the wrong way”, whereas do you hear that still amongst a sizeable minority of centre-left people about the left equivalents.

How interesting, a man obsessed with Britishness from German lineage.
I’m sure his wife is German or of German descent as his children I understand have German passports after Brexit.

Those that support Farage/Reform already know they are supporting a racist. This is not new. It has been known for as long as he has been in the public eye. They know and they don't care, because even if they don't consider themselves racist, they do not see anything wrong with racism per se. What the last decade of politics in the UK/US has allowed is for those who have always held such views to be openly vocal about them again. They have always been in society, all that changed is that they went underground. They still believed in their hateful stance, but couldn't be open about it.

I say this on every thread I see on this - if you don't want this to continue, get involved. Find a political party who most closely aligns with your views - you will not find one you 100% agree with on everything. Help out locally, even an hour a quarter is useful. Do it now, don't wait until just before the next election. For the sake of this country and progress, don't leave it to others, that is how we end up with Reform.

I’m the same generation and from a small and fairly bigoted town, this level of racism absolutely wasn’t acceptable. I’m amazed Dulwich College allowed it to go on, my state grammar and later comprehensive would never have stood for it. Misogyny yes absolutely and very common, racism and anti-semitism, no.

This is linked, as any failures by KS and his government play into the hands of NF and Reform. KS's charisma and general credibility has vanished. He always seems ill at ease and I have to admit that I'm finding it difficult to listen to him. Who speaks like that (same with RR)? What a lack of vision and whatmess they've made of their huge majority.

None of it is really that new, though. We have been aware for many years of the letter written by one of his teachers expressing concern about making him a prefect! Sadly, that doesn't seem to put off those who desperately want to make him our PM.

As for having concrete evidence, what difference does it actually make? Those who want to deny it will continue to find reasons to dismiss it - he was only a teenager and teenagers say stupid things, it was nearly 5 decades ago and everyone was racist back then etc etc. And those who aren't seeking to deny it probably think he is a racist in any case.

I do agree with you that this kind of racist behaviour in the past of a potential prime minister should be shocking to all of us, but it won't be at all shocking to anyone who has been watching the rise of Farage over the last decade or so. He hasn't exactly made a big secret of it.

Maybe educate yourself
That might work

In the 1960s, the memories of fighting the disgusting Nazis still loomed large in the general culture, and in the lived experience of many people.

It wasn't at all common to express admiration for Hitler and the Holocaust and anyone doing that in the public eye would be severely ostracised, and rightly so.

But it seems that in today's Britain, such things don't even make a dent in his election chances.

Does it matter what he was like as a child?

It absolutely does yes, these things shaped him to the man he is today, and he was a teenager with horrific views and he actively goaded and abused other students at his school. These sorts of people never change

The problem is, this man expressed deep hatred whilst a teenager and has ran with it as far and as high as he could get. He contributed to Brexit, or led it, whichever way you want to look at it and has since created a party which has caused division and hate. So it's not as simple as, "oh he was just a kid", he's actually taken it into adulthood and stirred up something I couldn't have imagined 15 years ago.
Somebody called up on Jeremy Vine today and said that he was the same age as Farage and when they were younger, most people hated Hitler so he couldn't understand the anti-Semitic jibes he made either.
He's a vile man and sadly his voters will love this.

On the rare occasions they do regret past behaviour, they are open about it, apologetic and despise how they behaved.

No sense of that from NF at all, although he isn't brave enough to actually admit what he did and say he still feels the same. Lots of dancing around what happened and making out he was 12.

Educate myself in lies?

I would happily have read their news 10 years ago, they have only themselves to blame for nobody having any interest in what they say, they made themselves unbelievable.

I found this quite interesting maybe you should educate yourself?

What is find interesting is the whole culture appropriation/ trans race thing of a global minority, it's worth giving thought to.

I remember getting in trouble at school for pushing a boy over who followed my friend around calling her a p*ki. The teachers told me it was just a joke and that it wasn't a big deal.

At 18 I got in trouble at work for refusing to serve a customer who called my colleague a 'stupid w*g'

This was all about 15 years ago.

Doesn't suprise me at all that people dismiss racism, but saddens me that people could do so when it's even more serious - talking about gas chambers and saying Hitler was right, FFS.

You shouldn't judge people for what they were like as a teenager - to a point. This is far beyond that point.

To be fair about 30 percent of white English people will have German ancestry thanks to the Anglo saxons 😅

But I suppose it got me thinking about what his family's position would have been at home on the War and Jews and what he grew up hearing to make him act like this at a young age....how many english kids knew the words to Hitler youth songs in 1980??

I’m baffled as to how such people can claim to be patriots yet support the same people who killed British soldiers (and that’s even before we get to the genocide).

I want the other parties need to step up and do better. If they could actually tackle (illegal) immigration rather than gaslighting the public, Nigel would be out of a job.

In what way are you thinking about Nigel Farages German ancestry?