Fancy cars for disabled people

[LemaxObsessive]

Motability.

I am sick to absolute death of seeing people saying on various threads, that Motability vehicles are “given” to us disabled people “for free”.

PIP is awarded in 2 separate elements.

1. Daily Living (day to day care needs etc)
2. Mobility

Each element is paid at different rates depending on how affected by your disability you are (and yes, medical evidence is required). However, to be eligible for Motability, you need to be getting the highest rate of the Mobility element. This is currently £77.05 per week (which works out at £308.20 per 4 weeks or £333.88 per month).

When you join Motability you agree for the DWP to give Motability that £77.05 per week instead of it being paid to your bank. If you also receive the Daily Living element of PIP then you will still receive that directly.

You ALSO, in most cases, have to pay an advance payment (AP) for the vehicle. The better the vehicle, the higher the AP. You do not get the AP back.
The £77.05 per week pays for the lease of the car, insurance, roadside assistance, tyres & windshield cover. Disabled people in receipt of the highest rate of the PIP mobility element are already exempt from road tax.

With regards to the ‘fancy’ cars such as BMW, Audi & Mercedes, as you can imagine all of these have a whopping great AP in the multiple thousands of pounds; Which as I said, you don’t get back.
The taxpayer is not paying a penny towards these vehicles besides the fact that Motability don’t currently pay VAT which I believe is up for discussion.

I think a really important point to make here is that PIP is categorically not means tested (even millionaires can claim it, provided their health meets the criteria) and is not paid to replace a disabled person’s income! In other words, people do not live off PIP instead of working, it is paid to cover the added costs associated with being disabled. Costs non-disabled people likely have never even considered, such as cleaners when we can’t do it, basic gardening when we can’t do it, extra electricity for when medical equipment is used at home, ready meals when we’re bed-bound, delivery charges for every single thing we buy because click & collect isn't possible, taxis to work because the bus always already has a wheelchair user on it, along with lots of other small but mounting costs we have zero choice but to pay because the alternative isn’t an option for us. The lowest rate of PIP is just £29.20 per week so we’re not talking big money!

Millions of PIP claimants work full time but crucially, couldn’t do so without PIP and in many cases, without Motability!

As I said above, even wealthy people are eligible to claim PIP to cover the added costs associated with their disability and they can, if they receive the highest rate of the Mobility Component of PIP choose to use Motability. If they want to spend £7,999 plus £77.05 per week to lease an Audi Q4 for 3 years then they can but not many do because it’s a lot of money to have nothing to show for it after 3 years.

So no, nobody is being ‘given free BMWs, Audis or Mercedes’ regardless of what’s being said by anyone!

Even if that was the case, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Motability scheme, which is what the thread is about.

The link mainly talks about stolen blue badges, fake blue badges and also mentions stolen cars.

But is that a reason to slag off, denigrate and punish all the genuine users?

If you have evidence of fraud, report it to Motability Iperatikns.

Having been through the application and then interview I can assure you that it is a humiliating, dehumanising and upsetting process. People all claim to know someone who says they have just been given PIP but maybe they don’t want to share the reality of the daily difficulties that they actually live with. People I work with, family and friends don’t know half of what I have to contend with daily to do the simplest things.

I have an all electric VW ID4, quite fancy but not a BMW or Audi but I was never going to pick one of those as I don’t drive like a prat.

Same nobody out my household have a clue people don't fake being ill they fake being well. I could meet a friend and act perfectly normal but they don't see what goes in to being able to do that or the recovery time afterwards.

Why are you questioning genuine claimants? Is it a ‘gotcha’ moment? If you think you have evidence of fraud, report it to Motability Operations.

@SummerdollIf you read my posts you’ll see I’ve detailed when I had an Audi on Motability! I’ve also had a Kia Sportage because I have a mobility scooter hoist which can only be fitted to certain vehicles. Is that ok?

Same. I only know people who fake being well. It is bloody exhausting.

There is an article in the Times by Mathew Paris today - ‘it’s time to derail the benefits gravy chain’. The article states that the current and predicted PIP levels are simply unsustainable and mental health worklessness is the biggest ‘illness’, especially with the younger claimants.

I don’t believe that anyone wants genuine claimants to suffer in the future, but all the genuine claimants on this forum should be getting very very angry with the claimants exaggerating their claims for financial gain. It is those fabricating the serious of their illnesses for financial gain who may lead to those most in need having a stressful time if benefits are reviewed.

PIP and worklessness in the same sentence says it all.
PIP in not an out of work benefit.

Who are these people fabricating their illnesses for financial gain? You can't just go to your GP, say you are a bit sad and get PIP and a car.

The article also states that 4 out of 5 (80%) of PIP claimants are not in paid work.

So? It is still not an out of work benefit. It is not a benefit intended to replace the wage of someone who can not work. That would be UC.

Are you aware that young people, who have newly left education and who do not have 2 years of NI payments behind them, are unable to claim the new ESA.

Instead they have to claim UC.

If they have worked in part time jobs and have been sensibly saving and or have child trust fund money totaling savings of greater than £16k they are then unable to claim any out of work benefits. So they have no ‘income support’.

As you correctly say PIP is not an ‘out of work’ benefit and so the fact that it is not means tested, it makes it very, very attractive to the younger generation, who through no fault of their own, have not yet been able to find paid employment. They can at least have a small amount of money to live on.

Its a mess.

What does it say exactly? Please explain. Only 1 in 6 pip claimants are in work, you are less likely to be successful in a pip application if you are still working. I sometimes wonder if it's because those with disabilities still working haven't got the energy or mental capacity to even apply for pip or create the paper trail on GP/NHS appointments/meds/diagnosis that is required. I should imagine not working gives you more time & energy to devote to these things. And yet we should absolutely be helping disabled people into the workplace and to stay in work, but this doesn't seem to be happening.

Because disabled people can't win.

If they ask for reasonable adjustments, colleagues feel hard done by and moan about it on mumsnet.

If they don't work, they are just lazy and clearly have too much time on their hands which is probably how they managed to get PIP anyway.

PIP is a payment given to disabled people to level the playing field.
If it was an out of work benefit, it would be means tested, and also not available to children (in the form of DLA).

I have RA at work, no one moans, it's been a lifesaver on difficult days enabling me to put boundaries in place and push back when workload is too much. I personally respect other people in my team who still continue to work with disabilities, I certainly wouldn't resent them.

No-one said it was an out of work benefit. BUT most of those claiming it aren't working, so why aren't they working if it's supposed to be levelling the playing field?

Some people resent RA. I agree that it's often a lifesaver and plenty of those who can work with disabilities would struggle to work without it.

Not all workplaces are very accommodating and of course, disabilities also vary.

I just don’t see how people can be fabricating it.

there’s a 50 page form to fill out. Ok, say you lie on the form.

they ask for access to your full nhs records. Those just can’t be fabricated - they’re available through the nhs app.

then there’s the requirement to provide evidence for each of the 94 questions on the 50 page form. I submitted over 100 pages of evidence including train wheelchair assistance requests, flying wheelchair assistance requests, hospital records, consultants letters going back over twenty years.

I mean I guess you could fake all of that - intelligence services do on a regular basis - but it’s a lot of effort and it all needs to tie in with your nhs records which will have consultants letters etc on as well.

and then there is either a zoom call or a f2f assessment where they can physically see for example if you have a missing leg.

i just don’t see how it’s easy to defraud.

I’ll go and ask my quadriplegic mate who has a brain injury why he doesn’t work anymore, I’ll get back to you when he’s managed to answer.

No, they won't. The article clearly says it's blue badge fraud, with badges that belonged to people who have died, stolen vehicles and stolen badges.

Because it helps level the playing field that allows disabled people to get out of their homes, not accepted in society or as competent workers. (that's assuming the disability even allows them to work around it in the first place)

It doesn't make the disabilities go away. It doesn't make employers more interested, reasonable or accepting of us. It doesn't take away their prejudices,
or fear of the rest of their staffs responses to reasonable adjustments.

It doesn't stop them thinking 'but we'd have to get the disabled lift fixed' and that costs money, or stop them using the disabled loo as a storeroom, and 'where would that stuff go' or 'but we're running as a fire risk anyway, imagine the optics of a disabled person trapped if we had an incident.'

It doesn't stop them worrying that they might get into trouble for not having disabled access in the first place.

It doesn't make the virtually collapsed 'access to work' kick into gear.

It doesn't make people think we'll be reliable, no matter how much we are.

It doesn't stop people not wanting to see there's a daily struggle to keep up with the ambulant, do the 'walk and talk,' get through the myriad of heavy doors all day, or not be having to use a completely different route to everyone else so always out of the loop on what's discussed on the fly.

It doesn't stop them looking at their ridiculous check in and outs, and seeing that you wont be able to raise both hands above your head to 'catch the energy ball' of get up and run manically and spontaneously from an imaginary Trex during their 'motivation huddles' and feeling that it would all be 'too awkward.'

They think of their group 'where are we feeling today' questions that make them feel so much better that they've 'shared' and shudder that it might be insensitive, so better you aren't in their workforce. (or realize some of us might be thinking 'none of your business!' and be 'affected.')

It doesn't stop people complaining that my central line makes them feel sick/ disgusts them/ frightens them etc, or that my face gives them the ick. My work and skills aren't what they see.

IME most working disabled who are in decent employment where either taken on in a different era when there where incentives for employers, or already working when they became disabled.

And funnily enough those fancy cars can actually make a disabled person look more valued to an employer. Driving something of supposed value offends some, but humanizes and adds supposed value to others.
Reactions to my ancient vehicle is to see it as all I'm worth, which is interesting.

I'm constantly chasing contracts to stay working. I get so many based on my actual work and skill set but then when they see me, suddenly 100 excuses as to why they can't take me on.
I do manage to convert a some of those by undercutting the able bodied, but most just really don't want someone like me around.

It's rare to find people who genuinely look at my skills and accept that as I'm out doing this for my daily living, so I will be able to manage my disabilities while working for them.

Increasingly the hirers are younger. As a generation most have language down to a fine art, but will actually say that having people with physical disabilities may not be compatible with values around MH in the workplace.

One lot's worried we wont work hard enough or give value for money, the other lot's worried we will.

Mobility allowance and a carer help level the playing field, they don't make it in any way smooth or the same as the able bodied that I'm competing for work and opportunities with.

Well exactly but this doesn't stop posters persisting with this idea that you can just go along to your GP and tell them you suffer with anxiety and hey presto your entitled to Full rate PIP.