Fancy cars for disabled people

[LemaxObsessive]

Motability.

I am sick to absolute death of seeing people saying on various threads, that Motability vehicles are “given” to us disabled people “for free”.

PIP is awarded in 2 separate elements.

1. Daily Living (day to day care needs etc)
2. Mobility

Each element is paid at different rates depending on how affected by your disability you are (and yes, medical evidence is required). However, to be eligible for Motability, you need to be getting the highest rate of the Mobility element. This is currently £77.05 per week (which works out at £308.20 per 4 weeks or £333.88 per month).

When you join Motability you agree for the DWP to give Motability that £77.05 per week instead of it being paid to your bank. If you also receive the Daily Living element of PIP then you will still receive that directly.

You ALSO, in most cases, have to pay an advance payment (AP) for the vehicle. The better the vehicle, the higher the AP. You do not get the AP back.
The £77.05 per week pays for the lease of the car, insurance, roadside assistance, tyres & windshield cover. Disabled people in receipt of the highest rate of the PIP mobility element are already exempt from road tax.

With regards to the ‘fancy’ cars such as BMW, Audi & Mercedes, as you can imagine all of these have a whopping great AP in the multiple thousands of pounds; Which as I said, you don’t get back.
The taxpayer is not paying a penny towards these vehicles besides the fact that Motability don’t currently pay VAT which I believe is up for discussion.

I think a really important point to make here is that PIP is categorically not means tested (even millionaires can claim it, provided their health meets the criteria) and is not paid to replace a disabled person’s income! In other words, people do not live off PIP instead of working, it is paid to cover the added costs associated with being disabled. Costs non-disabled people likely have never even considered, such as cleaners when we can’t do it, basic gardening when we can’t do it, extra electricity for when medical equipment is used at home, ready meals when we’re bed-bound, delivery charges for every single thing we buy because click & collect isn't possible, taxis to work because the bus always already has a wheelchair user on it, along with lots of other small but mounting costs we have zero choice but to pay because the alternative isn’t an option for us. The lowest rate of PIP is just £29.20 per week so we’re not talking big money!

Millions of PIP claimants work full time but crucially, couldn’t do so without PIP and in many cases, without Motability!

As I said above, even wealthy people are eligible to claim PIP to cover the added costs associated with their disability and they can, if they receive the highest rate of the Mobility Component of PIP choose to use Motability. If they want to spend £7,999 plus £77.05 per week to lease an Audi Q4 for 3 years then they can but not many do because it’s a lot of money to have nothing to show for it after 3 years.

So no, nobody is being ‘given free BMWs, Audis or Mercedes’ regardless of what’s being said by anyone!

Realistically there will be people paying £600 plus per month for the same car probably working in the same jobs with the same salary as those receiving disability payments.

It's not a means tested benefit.

In addition, whilst somebody may be able to make a payment of a few thousand pounds (much to the advantage of the company leasing the vehicles), one of the difficulties that led to the scheme was that disabled people or parents caring for disabled children are far less likely to be in the sort of employment - or employment at all - that enables them to pass credit checks for purchasing or leasing vehicles on the open market.

Well they are - they are putting it towards a car to help them get around, because they are disabled. Is your opinion that they should only get standard marked cars? Perhaps a standard recognisable colour?

Also to PP who said it's free money or a free car - only people who work are of value to society? So scrap all benefits?

Because its not means tested its to pay for disability and to level the playing field. Do you think because you suddenly become disabled you should lose everything you have worked for, for years? Do you think all disabled people deserve to be made poor?

Say it louder. 👏

My teenage daughter is blind, because she was exposed to drugs and alcohol in utero. It’s safe to say that she will never be able to drive (no doubt some clever dick will argue driverless cars here). She gets PIP mobility at the enhanced rate. I/she does not have a Motability car. I have my own car, paid for by me. I find the Motability terms quite oppressive. Also, if anyone finds my daughter’s entitlement to PIP an unnecessary expense, then that’s really sad that they begrudge a 17-year-old girl a bit of a helping hand. Most other 17-year-olds we know are busy having driving lessons.

Well said @LemaxObsessive I have seen some posts this past week or so, where people are blathering on about people with disabilities getting Mercedes and BMW on PIP, and swanning around in these 'flash cars.' LOL. I have yet to see this. All I ever see is people in a good, reliable, larger car (that can take various disability aids and a wheelchair.)

Some people just like to spout nonsense to have ago at people with disabilities. As has been said, it's like some people would just rather everyone with disabilities just fell off the planet. It's really quite upsetting truth be told.... 😢

I get the higher rate and have ADHD
It is not why I got the higher rate. In fact, when I only had ADHD I didn’t qualify for PIP and worked full time.

I got PIP and the higher rate due to life changing injuries in a car accident that make it impossible for me to travel anywhere by myself.

I don’t actually get a motability car because I am not allowed to drive anymore due to those some life changing injuries. But others would be less disabled than I when it comes to ability to drive.

The funny thing is, when you fill in your PIP form you are asked to list your disabilities/health conditions in order of oldest to newest. ADHD was the first thing I was diagnosed with, years before the car accident.

I think that the first (oldest condition) listed on PIP is being mistaken for the “main” condition when the media report on it or DWP does a data mine. When in fact the 1st condition you list is the oldest one. We are never asked for what is our “main” condition and most PIP claimants have more than one condition.

When people without mobility issues can't afford a car they can walk, hop on the bus, or ride a bike/moped to where they need to be. Or they buy an old banger. People with mobility issues can't do that. Their condition requires a vehicle adapted for their disability so they can get from A to B.

By the way, it is possible for people with disabilities to have a good job that pays well. Mobility PIP is not based on income. It goes to everyone who qualifies regardless of income.

X

They need a Motability car due to either their own disability or a child's disability. PIP and DLA aren't means tested.

Sometimes you also have little choice. My son needs a WAV due to his wheelchair and WAVs don't come cheap.

This is the problem with these discussions. It’s straight to ‘do you think disabled people should be poor’ etc - emotional stuff, at an extreme.

And no - obviously, people don’t think that.

Bit, do you not think there is something a bit questionable about 860,000+ people needing a state-funded, taxed, insured, maintained car - a figure which has increased by 150% in 5 years (and continues to rise).

Is there anything at all about that situation which might raise eyebrows?

Im also on high rate mobility and I choose not to get a motability car as I have my own car and I use the motability for taxis as my specialists are spread around the country. Before getting pip i used hospital transport which i would imagine cost the government more then giving me the money to pay for taxis

Not really we have just had a pandemic, the nhs is failing and they moved retirement age up so its hardly surprising that there are more disabled people

Is it free? You see, I think of PIP like I would think of JSA or UC. I have paid in for decades and due to no fault of my own I was hit by an SUV. They got to carry on with their life, whereas I lost everything except my husband and kids that day. I lost my health, my job, my career, we lost our home due to the financial strain. I paid in and now I’m getting a pittance back. My DH works, so that is the only benefit I claim. To go from earning £10k/month to getting £700/mo is no joke. I don’t see it as ‘free’ money. It’s mine. It’s pay back from all the taxes I paid for decades.

Of course that's what the haters want.

Same type who think no-one should have social housing for life, and as soon as their household income hits £30K per year, they should surrender it to someone more 'deserving' and go into private let.

Conveniently forgetting that almost immediately after doing this, the 2 sets of people will have switched roles. The one who was reasonably OK financially in the social housing now becomes the one struggling as their rent is £600 a month more now. And the one who took the social housing as they had less income NOW becomes the one who is better off financially.

So, should they switch again, and then again, and then again?!!!!

Some people have about as much common sense as a mouldy conker.

Exactly the same i worked full time and paid tax for 20 years before needing pip.

Not considering the state the NHS is in and the overall population growth & ageing.

It’s obvious the root causes of increasing disability.

In that case can I get all the money I've paid back as well? You said it's your money because you paid it in now you're getting it back. That argument really doesn't work or everyone would be entitled to get it back.

I'm not disputing that you're entitled to it due to your disability, but getting it back just because you've paid in is a silly argument.

And, just for the record, you need to be below state pension age to apply. DH can’t walk but we didn’t apply while he was working because didn’t think taxpayers should fund someone who could afford their own car.

Now, post retirement, of course, when he could do with the subsidy, he is not eligible to claim.

If you are unlucky enough to become severely disabled you will. Don't ever think it won't happen to you all it takes is one accident or one illness and your life could change forever.

Its still money being paid out of the public purse .

Your post is inaccurate to its core - its £77 a week not a month and the only grants available are strictly means tested and only for vehicles that need to be wheelchair accessible.

Of course drivers without mobility issues can afford the same car - they're not just sold on the motability scheme, plenty of vehicles are sold/leased as company cars or to private individuals. At the end of the motability lease these vehicles are then sold on the second hand car market - what would the effect on the market place be if these vehicles weren't available?

You're also assuming that disabled people have the same access to employment as non disabled people. Autism is a much maligned condition on MN, but just 3 in 10 people with a diagnosis of autism are in paid work, compared to 5 in 10 of people disabled by other conditions. Just 36% of graduates with autism are in paid work, just 36% of these academic individuals who also happen to have autism gain employment.

PIP and motability is there to give disabled people something approximating equal access to society but those with able bodied privilege just can't stand it. Get a bloody grip of yourselves and try and see how difficult life is for some people.

Exactly. You question why someone should perhaps be expected to use their spare £8k to support themselves in other ways rather than use it to buy a BMW and you suddenly want disabled people to be poor and for them to have to drive round in marked cars (for the record I absolutely don’t want either of these things). This debate gets hysterical every time.

The problem we have as a country is that we have no money, and we need to have sensible discussions about things like this without resorting to accusations that anyone who wants to rein spending in a bit wants all disabled people to disappear.

Not cool @ThejoyofNC. You lack empathy and it shows.