Fancy cars for disabled people

[LemaxObsessive]

Motability.

I am sick to absolute death of seeing people saying on various threads, that Motability vehicles are “given” to us disabled people “for free”.

PIP is awarded in 2 separate elements.

1. Daily Living (day to day care needs etc)
2. Mobility

Each element is paid at different rates depending on how affected by your disability you are (and yes, medical evidence is required). However, to be eligible for Motability, you need to be getting the highest rate of the Mobility element. This is currently £77.05 per week (which works out at £308.20 per 4 weeks or £333.88 per month).

When you join Motability you agree for the DWP to give Motability that £77.05 per week instead of it being paid to your bank. If you also receive the Daily Living element of PIP then you will still receive that directly.

You ALSO, in most cases, have to pay an advance payment (AP) for the vehicle. The better the vehicle, the higher the AP. You do not get the AP back.
The £77.05 per week pays for the lease of the car, insurance, roadside assistance, tyres & windshield cover. Disabled people in receipt of the highest rate of the PIP mobility element are already exempt from road tax.

With regards to the ‘fancy’ cars such as BMW, Audi & Mercedes, as you can imagine all of these have a whopping great AP in the multiple thousands of pounds; Which as I said, you don’t get back.
The taxpayer is not paying a penny towards these vehicles besides the fact that Motability don’t currently pay VAT which I believe is up for discussion.

I think a really important point to make here is that PIP is categorically not means tested (even millionaires can claim it, provided their health meets the criteria) and is not paid to replace a disabled person’s income! In other words, people do not live off PIP instead of working, it is paid to cover the added costs associated with being disabled. Costs non-disabled people likely have never even considered, such as cleaners when we can’t do it, basic gardening when we can’t do it, extra electricity for when medical equipment is used at home, ready meals when we’re bed-bound, delivery charges for every single thing we buy because click & collect isn't possible, taxis to work because the bus always already has a wheelchair user on it, along with lots of other small but mounting costs we have zero choice but to pay because the alternative isn’t an option for us. The lowest rate of PIP is just £29.20 per week so we’re not talking big money!

Millions of PIP claimants work full time but crucially, couldn’t do so without PIP and in many cases, without Motability!

As I said above, even wealthy people are eligible to claim PIP to cover the added costs associated with their disability and they can, if they receive the highest rate of the Mobility Component of PIP choose to use Motability. If they want to spend £7,999 plus £77.05 per week to lease an Audi Q4 for 3 years then they can but not many do because it’s a lot of money to have nothing to show for it after 3 years.

So no, nobody is being ‘given free BMWs, Audis or Mercedes’ regardless of what’s being said by anyone!

Its shocking isn’t it that those who do not pass their Work Capability Assessment get less UC.

While those UC claimants that are perfectly abled and therefore judged capable of work, but can’t seem to find the willingness to work are all going to get a huge ££££ increase that will cost £2.9bn.

Silly is it? I guess you won’t be claiming your state pension then.

That surprised me, as the response I have seen toward lifting the two child benefit cap has been pretty much 100% negative.

It is broadly seen as being an insane act of largesse in the current climate, while simultaneously raising taxes.

Yes it doesn't make sense at all. I think the thinking is that it will deter people from going down the sickness route as it's less money yet people can't help being sick?

Considering I’m a claimant I’d hardly say it’s nonsense or actively trying to spread misinformation.. just a simple mistake.

I’d suggest you get off your high horse!

Yep, that hasn’t quite happened yet like the £725 per annum average UC raise for the perfectly abled who don’t feel like finding a job has, but the extra child benefit will also cost loads more money.

It is hard to be told we need to rein in spending and then see it being increased lavishly for others who are no more needy.

Thanks for the explanation, OP. My current car and my previous car were both ex-Motability vehicles, so as far as I'm concerne the scheme expands the availability of good-quality used cars!.

It is interesting to learn how the funding works, and good to have some of the myths corrected.

Again, this suggests that everyone should get it

Yet I see more people outraged over pip than I do 2 child cap. Personally, I do agree that the pip assessments are looked at again as some of the questions means some people miss out (type ones for example which is an expensive disease) but I don’t agree with the motability being messed about.
To many disabled people rely on motability and I have seen the devastation it causes when someones reassessed & looses their car. Only the most severely disabled get a car.

The thinking is batshit. It thinks we all self identify as sick and can just self identify as perfectly well and abled. Even if we go psychotically deluded and chant I’m ok I’m ok, employers aren’t going to be fooled for a nanosecond.

Some people must think that it would/ could never happen to them. It is mind boggling.

I didn’t suggest everyone should get their taxes back. I was talking about my situation. It is a shame that you’ve decided your only argument is to extrapoate my comment into the most illogical extreme.

I have absolutely no idea how it works, never claimed and I apologise if I sound totally ignorant... We have a wonderful security guard who works nights and I chat to him often while walking the pet. He was telling me a few weeks ago his daughter in law (adult, mum of two) had severe OCD and it was all about keeping the house clean. Security guard was rear ended a few weeks ago, so we talked about needing a new car, the high costs involved in the 2nd hand market.. and he talked about his DIL again - turned out she had a mobility car provided.

I don't think I have the wrong end of the stick, because I asked how OCD over cleaning meant she had a disability that she needed wheels for. He couldn't answer.

I thought mobility cars were to help those who had troubles physically walking, getting public transport too difficult?

For those who think PIP should be means tested... or who think there shouldn't be disability benefits at all..

What do disabled people do then?

Where do we live - in the workhouse?
What do we do - sit around in a group home all day watching tv?

Or .. starve/freeze to death?

I wouldn't be averse to an income + cash capital cut off - if you've got 200K in the bank, in investments (discounting the property you actually live in) etc then you get 'PIP entitlement' but no actual cash. Then you're going to get the same access that PIP gets you to all sorts of things, just not the extra money.

That would save the taxpayer probably about 10p each, a saving none of you would notice.

I'd love to know what the 'cut disability benefits' folks think disabled people SHOULD do, beyond 'cease to exist'. Its all very well saying its not fair that we get money you don't get, but come on then... give us your solution!

1 Getting pip isn’t that easy, not as easy as some would have us believe.

Rightly or wrongly my niece had her application turned down. She has mobility, balance and standing problems. She can do all 3 but only for a limited time/distance.

I can’t quantify her problems but know she can't work a normal week.

When a person gets this it’s up to them how they choose to spend it - on things to make their lives easier/possible.

2 Cars and finance.

I admit that it does sometimes seems surprising that a claimant gets a Mercedes, BMW etc.

However the payment is calculated on the total cost - ie including depreciation.

When able bodied people finance a car using PCP it can be the case that an A class Mercedes can be a similar monthly cost to a Ford Fiesta.

This is because at the end of the lease period the Fiesta has lost a lot more money compared to the Mercedes.

I suspect the same rules, reasons and costings operate in the world of PIP funded cars.

Until a government comes up with a 100% fool-poof way of telling apart chancers and those honest joes in real need, nobody should be refused help. One genuine person suffering is one too many imo.

I just don’t agree with the welfare state being so all-encompassing. The original vision was for a safety net that would house the homeless and feed the starving. I don’t think the state should be funding the extra costs of disability for people who could fund them themselves. I also don’t think they should fund costs which are discretionary (like a car). There should just be a much higher expectation of individuals, families and communities looking after themselves and each other.

Why only disability? Why not parents funding their childrens education? Why not people paying for their own health care? Both of those things would save huge amounts of money.

It doesn’t seem to be possible to get out of the pip data how many people have high level mobility allowance.

i for example have no caring component but have higher level mobility because I use a wheelchair. I don’t have a motability vehicle yet but when my car needs replacing I will get a wheelchair accesible vehicle.

what the pip date does say is that 37% get height rate care and high rate mobility. So say 3.7 on pip,
that’s at least 1.369 million eligible for motability.

and as I say that doesn’t include people like me who get no caring but high mobility.

so 869/1.369 gives 63% of high/high pip claimants (who on anybodie’s measure are going to be severely disabled) have a motability car.

i’m actually surprised it’s not higher to be honest, although having said that I do know people who
couldn’t afford a wheelchair and needed to “buy” (lease) their electric wheelchair through motability.

i got my pip backdated as it took them nine months to go through the process so I was able to afford to buy my wheelchair outright.

That last part is incorrect, you CANNOT get the higher rate of the mobility component purely for ADHD! I’ve quite literally stated what the criteria is for that component of PIP an ADHD doesn’t cause either of them! They may also have ADHD alongside another disability but they do not get it for ADHD

I sit right in the ‘squeezed middle’ demographic. I earn too much for any help but as a single parent paying nursery fees and high accommodation costs I worry about money every week.

I have no problem at all with my taxes funding motability vehicles. I DO have a problem with them funding luxury cars.

having a look an Audi Q4 is £496.55 with an up front payment of £8750. Before insurance and maintenance.

I don’t know much about cars but WHY does someone need an Audi not a Kia Stonic or Dacia spring (picked purely because they look a similar size. If you want the Audi keep the cash and put it towards the Audi or if you want it for free have the Dacia?

What non-disabled people can afford is nothing to do with this and is not my concern! Motability exists because A. Disabled people would never be able to afford a car, especially those who are too ill to work, as insurance companies still class it as ‘unemployed’ and charge a bloody fortune for basic insurance and B. Many of us are forced to drive or take taxis as public transport is too difficult for various reasons.

Agree. There's a poster who posts on here a lot who owns 12 rental properties and claims PIP. Loves to brag about her huge retirement pot. Sorry but I do not think it should be allowed.

Agreed. I don’t know where this idea has come from that disabled people shouldn’t be expected to pay any of their own money for things. That their finances should remain completely unchanged and every single extra thing that they want or need should be paid for by someone else. Meanwhile, it looks like a lot of us WILL be facing losing more money to pay for all this, but that’s OK?

We’re talking about welfare. That’s not just disability, it’s also joblessness and old age. Education and health are a different kettle of fish. If I were PM I would slash welfare and invest hugely in education, particularly early years and things like sure start.