Labour isn't working - Thread 19

[TheNuthatch]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

We are bracing for the budget 😬

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5441764-labour-isnt-working-thread-18?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

But if Mahmood can stave off handing the keys to the galvanised radical lefts in the party then we might have more to work with in three years time.

Agreed: I'll take any crumbs of decent policy wherever we can get them. I don't care that it's hypocrisy if it's the right thing to do.

We shouldn't be too positive though: sure way to get the partisan Left to turn against her.

Yes Mahmood sounds (to good to be true) if she has these beliefs, how can she be a Labour MP in the current set up. Secondly and this is a big one especially with all her policy ideas, she stated her religion was the most important thing to her. Surely, with the role of Home Secretary the the Country must come first.

I also doubt she will be able to get her ideas passed the left of the Party, which will block any serious policies to bring down/discourage illegal immigration. The one thing she does have on her side if she is serious, though is her ethnicity which enables her to say perfectly logical things, not be attacked by those 'open borders' people !

Just listening to the radio. The fast pulling of support for Starmer is really something. Within the party and being reflected through commentators.

He’s going to find PMQs hard. I might even listen for that.

The mamood stuff is interesting but again makes me think...so all this wasn't already in place .

I have often said we should be looking at the best working models in the world and seeing how we can implement parts here.
So I'm quite hopefully actually she's digging deeper and getting a grip and hopefully some of it will get implemented and stick.

Yes its hypocritical but I think hypocrisy is the tag line for this shambles.if a labour gov can get this ball rolling it will be much easier for the Tories to carry on .

KS and the Chinese have seemingly been indulging in mutual schmoozing ever since the 2024 election; this is the just one of the results. I wonder what else KS has been doing to undermine our sovereignty?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15295087/Chinese-state-security-permission-check-passports-British-heritage-site-embassy.html

True. They can’t use the old prop of culture wars and racism to divert. I can’t believe they got away with that.

As long as they’re out anyway, fine.

@redange yes agree but ironically some religions are more right than left aren't they.

And yes it's not as easy to shout her down .
Let's hope she can get this ball rolling and change the atmosphere as she says

I wouldn’t be so sure - they went after Priti Patel and Suella Braverman hard enough for wrong think and betrayal (of their race).

I can’t imagine Labour MPs okaying the move. If they want to actually be Labour and remember Powell’s core values stuff.

Many of them have been calling the public racist / far right etc do how can they then support those changes?

ETA they probably will anyway as it was all concocted and they’ll go for jobs first.

Starmer can’t do his that’s racist policy stuff anymore he’s backing the Mahmood change. In fact he should just go after those rants.

Overall there can’t be any opposition to other parties going further, how could there be? Everyone will talk about harsher changes.

Hello! You’re absolutely right.

The unions have a disproportionate power to control what the Labour party does through their leader vote scam.

It reminds me of the US and guns. Obv not the same but similarities. They’ll never ever get guns under control whilst they have a powerful ‘gun rights’ minority in gvt. We’re in a better position as if we had a conservative gvt we’d not be bound by the unions and Labour back benches loons. However we now have a labour gvt and they can’t do much in the way of anything right of looney left, with the power of the looney left back benches (supported by the ever powerful unions).

So a person trying to implement sensible immigration policies like Mahmood is suggesting, or going for leader like Mahmood or Streeting, will never happen.

It’s the reason they got lumbered with failure Ed Milliband before.

The issue now is that we’d all be lumbered with the unions choice. Disastrous in every way. I really hope the next Conservative gvt try and quash the union power. Have unions fine, but not unions that have the ability to control what happens to the rest of the country.

‘America’s gun control majority hasn’t decided that the murder of children is a “bearable” cost for preserving our constitutional freedoms. It simply hasn’t figured out how to overcome the intense opposition from the gun rights minority, in a system of government designed to give disproportionate power to lightly populated rural areas, where love of gun rights runs deep, and intense minority opposition, a category that includes gun owners.’

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/16/obama-gun-control-227625/

I am not a massive fan of the unions. I was particularly unimpressed with the NEU and their open, political posturing over Palestine. I literally only pay the fee in case I need legal representation. With the daily attacks on staff by pupils, parents, the government and MATs. You’d be mad to work in a school without a union.

Yes I agree. Unions that work for their people and rights in the workplace. How it all started.

However they shouldn’t have disproportionate power to elect the Labour party leader. That link needs to be severed.

Some unions are also too strong and impact everyday people when they shouldn’t have the power to do that. RMT for example.

ETA. I supported the teachers when they were striking at our school.

My sister, perhaps due to working in a Grammar school in Lincs is probably less at the chalk face than Legolava. However, she is a member of the NUT despite, fundamentally disagreeing with 95% of what the Union stands for. It is protection from accusations and also you are 'press' ganged in to joining a union in teaching.

Mahmood said the plans were based on measures introduced in 2021 by Denmark that were credited with driving down the number of people seeking refugee protection in the Nordic country.

Presumably, there are significant distinctions between Denmark and the UK - in terms of the legions of human rights lawyers we seemingly possess, in addition to parts of the electorate apparently keen to see social cohesion come apart. This is pure speculation on my part, but I struggle to see us successfully emulating Denmark.

Yeah that’s it. You have to be really for protection. I didn’t strike. Mainly because the children I teach are safer in school than at home. I also think there are much bigger issues than pay right now. However, I am fortunate I can say that.

I do not know much about Danish politics, but Borgen on Netflix was really good and insightful and some quite typical stuff with Greenland and the US too.

As a -parent, we were lucky in that the schools my kids attend - most teachers shun the NEU and go for other unions that are less militant. It was very obvious during the teacher strikes, our schools did not close, my kids barely missed anything. So the teaching unions cannot all be the same.

I am in the NEU and didn’t strike. Generally you sign up to the one that is the majority in your school at the time. It is easier if you need to take group action.

@Legolava - can the majority not change unions then? If they do not agree with the stance of eg the NEU?

They can but a lot will stay with what they know. Also, a lot won’t be that fussed. They pay their Union fees to get legal protection. Many teachers don’t really care or have the time to. It’s a means to an end for legal protection.

I have a friend who won’t strike (neither would my mother) for the same reasons as you. She is loathed by Childrens Services and other teachers for putting children’s education first.

Some of them are quite scary (unions ) I know there was a chat about trouble at mill recently and bullying tactics.

There was one unions at least that is non political and I think that's the way to go.
My unions list of CPD is all around LGBT and stuff which is fine let's do that but why aren't women's rights more prominent as well. We are half the population after all and still undervalued under paid and disproportionately at risk of abuse and violence and death

I'm only in mine for legal protection should I ever need it. However I've heard that's not that great either.

Not one teacher at my school went on strike for the same reason. Generally loathed by teachers at neighbouring schools 🤣

I'd warn that if you have any issues in the workplace which stem from you knowing what a woman is, many of the unions may not assist you with that, as they may not agree with your stance.

Solicitors don't have an industry union, so I'm a member of Affinity, the union for people without a union (and they know what a woman is!).

Interesting re Mahmood today. Good luck getting that past the loony lefties!

Let’s also not forget that the Unions were opposed to Equal Pay in the early days. Yet more evidence that “The Left” (but obviously not all people on the Left) have misogynistic tendencies.

I’m really angry this morning. We’re in a Band F house, it’s nice but nothing special. We already pay £350 a month in Council Tax and the idea that this Government want to double our bill has made me 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

I bet. They’re really hitting a few hard.