Friend still believes in "chavs"?

[waytoooldforthisshite]

Had a funny (well, slightly depressing) conversation today. my friend came round all flustered, telling me that she'd been "harassed by chavs" outside the shop. One was some teenager who asked for her number 🙄

Tried to explain that "chavs" aren't even real, it's a tabloid invented stereotype/myth from the early 2000s that was basically used to demonise working class people. But she just went on about it like she was quoting The Sun from 2004. I ended up showing her this article. She's 39.... and I expected her to know a bit better but what can ya do eh?

Just feels so outdated now. You don't really hear anyone say "chav" anymore (thankfully), and it's weird how those old class-based stereotypes still linger. I honestly felt like I'd timetravelled back to the Little Britain era 😂

Anyone else still know people who talk like that?

Ah right, I heard it originated to describe Caribbean youths, but clearly it's broadened.

Well you have a right to say that it's rude to call someone a chav.

However...

You are WRONG to claim chavs don't exist, and the word doesn't exist anymore.

That odious little twerp Owen Jones wrote a book claiming that the label 'chav' demonized the working-class. Utter drivel. The label 'chav' has nothing to do with being working-class. On the contrary, it's ordinary working people who suffer most at their hands. We all know what we mean by a chav. Human beings are not naturally civilized. Civilization is very difficult to maintain and generally hangs by a thread. We have to work to maintain refinement, manners, social rituals, etc. Chavs laugh at all that and do whatever they like. They are the dregs of society. All they understand is violence. If they feel they can beat you in a fight, then god help you, because they will thoroughly enjoy making your life a misery. I wonder how Owen Jones would feel if he lived next door to such people? See if he still thinks they're a myth when their modified car wakes him up at 3am screeching and exploding round the block.

They're not loveable little rascals 'fightin da system'. Only brainwashed members of the left-wing cult believe that.

How do you know what she would have been against?

Working class people aren't chavs. A chav is a real type of person with a rough accent, poor but wears premium sports clothes, often has a low IQ,and behaves in an uncivilized way

Careful - you might offend the faint hearted!

I never said she was killed by a myth. The people who killed her were very real, very evil teenagers. To instead say she was killed by "chavs" is like saying "she was killed by werewolves". It'd be more respectful to just say she was killed by evil teenagers, which is the reality.

To clarify, it's a bit worse than saying she was "killed by werewolves" since "chav" has a particularly hateful and classist connotation to it.

I was with my ex husband when that happened. (He's a Metalhead.) My mum was really worried about something similar happening to us, and it was really upsetting in the wider alternative community. There were a lot of active rock, metal and alternative forums that I used to frequent, and it was talked about a lot. There were a few more attacks on Goths that made the headlines that year and the government were talking about making attacks on alternative people a hate crime. I don't know if people who weren't in that scene understand quite how shocking and upsetting it was.

Sylvia Lancaster (Sophie's mum) died in 2022.

I think you need to be really careful with threads like this. Everytime someone says they don't believe in Chavs, one of them dies!

The term ‘idiot’ is a slur though!
Idiot" was formerly a technical term in legal and psychiatriccontexts for some kinds of profound intellectual disabilitywhere the mental age is two years or less, and the person cannot guard themself against common physical dangers. The term was gradually replaced by "profound mental retardation", which has since been replacedby other terms.[1] Along with terms like moron, imbecile, retard and cretin, its use to describe people with mental disabilities is considered archaic and offensive

JudgeBread · Today 14:45
Today in Mumsnet land - chavs are mythological creatures!

David Attenborough should make a documentary warning us of the perils of the urban myth that is the chav!

Read up about what she was like as a child. She was very awake to injustices in the world and quickly became a vegetarian because she was against animal cruelty. I'm sure she would've been against class hate too.

👍

Are they like fairies? Or Father Christmas?

Of course they exist. Though we may not all use that term.

@waytoooldforthisshiteyou’re misunderstanding the very articles you are quoting.

Chavs are not a “myth”. They were not “invented by the tabloids”.

How on earth would such a thing even work?How could the tabloids “invent” a group of people?

Yes, they may have used it as a slur / in a derogatory way. But the group of people they were describing very much did (and do) exist.

I can’t quite understand how you can’t see this.

Your friend has described this group of youths and everybody on this thread knows exactly the type she is talking about. Strange that you are claiming that these people don’t exist.

I’m a vegetarian and against animal cruelty (who wouldn’t be against animal cruelty?) but I know what a chav is.

CHAV ISN’T CLASS HATE NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.

I mean ‘chav’ has come to mean something to the British public. It conveys a specific meaning and so, of course, it exists. Does it mean what the word originally meant? Perhaps not. But that’s how language works. Is it classist and unpleasant? Most definitely. But it still exists and indicates a type of person that most Brits know of and have met.

Do you really not see how revolting it is to appropriate a murdered woman to support your argument? I’d go as far to say it’s morally bankrupt

Well my DD was at school in the Cotswolds and the term was used to describe Cheltenham Average (chavs).

Pond life seems fashionable these days.

What on EARTH are you going on about?

Its nothing to do with class hate. I’d say you’re actually the one who is being judgemental as you’re suggesting the working class are chavs.

You can be on the lowest income and still raise a child to be a decent, well mannered person - not poorly behaved, threatening, rude etc. Those are chavs and the word definately exists where we are.

😂😂😂

Funny because it's true. It seems that OP definition of a chav and everyone else's is very different and she's very defensive. I don't think chavs are working class at all.And I also don't think they are violent or aggressive. Chavs are just people who dressed in Burberry or rock ports or similar. And I would associate them with girls who perhaps had an essex face lift and maybe too much make up. The boys had man bags.

Thanks for asking, but wow, where to start! Rochdale was a working class mill town and due to its wet climate produced an enormous amount of textiles and cotton in its heyday. It supported a huge amount of people, like my forebears, working long hours and living hard lives. Work was hard but gave people a basic dignity. That industry has all gone now so deindustrialisation has been definitely been a driving factor in its decline and the rise of benefits culture and ‘the chav’.

Not popular on here, but immigration has been another huge factor. In the 60s lots of folks moved for a better life. With the mills closing in the 70s / 80s many of these immigrants were also left without work. The town is divided, with the area near the old swimming baths being nearly 100% Asian. Contrary to the dreams of Guardian reading elite, there has not really been much integration between the native population and those who moved to Rochdale creating a significant amount of tension.

My experience of going to school there in the 90s was that some people were definitely professional chavs gaming the benefits system for all it was worth. We called them ‘townies’ or ‘pikeys’. Folks I went to school with had parents, and sometimes grandparents, who had lived on benefits but had expensive tracksuits, gold sovereign rings and the latest designer crap galore. Life on the giro was more lucrative than work. It was literally like an episode of Shameless. I don’t go back often and now live in a different part of the country, but I often think that people who post the kind of shite we’ve seen here from the OP really have no idea what life is like in places like Rochdale. So fucking sanctimonious.

But you don't KNOW that. You are just using her death to score points for your argument. This whole thread is dreadful to be honest. It's knocking me sick.

I'm working class, not a chav. I dress normally. I have a good accent and I am educated