Why so much hostility toward reasonable adjustments for autistic/ADHD students/workers?

[KeenTaupeDog]

I keep seeing backlash whenever someone with autism/ADHD asks for reasonable adjustments. Things like:
• being accused of cheating or getting “special treatment”
• people assuming you're lying or gaming the system
• resentment for accommodations that simply level the playing field

Why do so many people react this way?
Is it ignorance about what these conditions actually mean?
Envy?
Fear that fairness is “zero-sum”?
Or something deeper around stigma toward invisible disabilities?

Would be interested in honest perspectives — especially from those who’ve witnessed or experienced this dynamic.

If you dont think adhders etc. should be employed if they cant stay in work due to their adhd, then are you happy with them sitting at home and claiming benefits? Or dying of hunger?

Not looking to fight — just trying to understand where this reaction comes from.
Am a apsergers sufferer and people at uni accused me of cheating when they found out i had remote exams

We go around again because you seem adamant that people with an ND diagnosis are some binary group. That there struggles are automatically the same and NT people couldn't possible understand any of these challenges. You have completely bought into the ND/NT binary distinction that simply isn't rooted in reality.

You must work in a very rare workplace, then. They do happen from time to time, but it doesn't quite square with what you were saying about people building territories.

People often say these things until it actually happens.

I think we've got to the nub of it now. "The neuroduversity movement".

What "movement" would that be? I'm neurodiverse, I'm not a member of any movement and I don't thank you for trying to put me in one.

If over 1 in 7 of the population have a brain that works a bit differently than the other 6 out of 7 people then it's not "a movement", it's part of the spectrum of the normal human condition.

There a desperate lack of awareness as to how difficult almost everyone finds life by some people on this thread.

I have repeatedly told you that the first two points are a gross misrepresentation of what I'm saying.

I (and many other people with brains more similar to mine than ours are to yours) are just completely over NT people (and I use the term as a gross oversimplification of a complex idea) telling us that our experiences are not real. That we should just suck it up and be neurotypical. That they understand ADHD because they are a little forgetful.

My brain is fundamentally wired differently to yours. How is that not rooted in reality?

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/identity/the-neurodiversity-movement

I have repeatedly told you that the first two points are a gross misrepresentation of what I'm saying

You saying it doesn't make it true. We can all see what you wrote.

Maybe you need to spend less time in "the neurodiversity movement" as it's giving you a very unhelpful victim complex. You aren't more downtrodden, misunderstood, and hated than other people.

Have you read any of that website?

You've spent your time on this thread insisting that neurodivergence is a disability while the aim of the that "movement" is stated as "changing views in medical science and society more widely so that people understand neurodivergence as a difference, not a ‘deficit’ or ‘disorder’. "

Ah, another reason to dislike the National Autistic Society. Not that I needed another one…

I want to know how people can opt out of being associated with this “neurodiversity movement”. I think some of the narrative is extremely unhelpful.

😍😍😍

No, it doesn't fit with your projections.

It fits entirely with what I actually said, which is that in my place of work, the people building territory do it by taking ownerships of chunks of the business rather than how employees are allowed to do their jobs or - what was your phrase - "cliquey games".

Anyone acting like that, ND or orherwise, would find their career progression pretty limited.

Your brain isn't necessarily wired differently to mine. That misrepresents the science. Your brain will show differences due to your ADHD versus someone with a completely Neurotypical brain, that much is true. In the same way we can observe differences in the brain between a regular brain and other traits such as extremely kind people and extremely intelligent people. The thing is, it's very unlikely that I have a completely NT brain as few people do. Most people have ND traits and these will be reflected in the brain, the same as yours are.

Many people without a diagnosis will show differences in brain scans versus what a so called NT brain should show. Take Autism for example. Those with the Broader Autism Phenotype have brains that are a similar composition and have the 'wiring' as someone who have an autistic diagnosis. It's the extremity in how the traits are expressed that makes the difference. This can be due to more substantial brain differences but also environment and other traits of a person including their sex.

I personally am fed up of people like you misrepresenting the science and trying to place artificial barriers between people with all this NT/ND binary nonsense.

Urgh, this is painful.

So we I told that the challenges of NT people pale into insignificance compared to those of NT people. But also that lots of ND people have not yet been diagnosed, and that many mask. But also that masking doesn't make you any less ND
And no, not everyone is a little bit ND, even though most people may have some ND traits, the difference is how much they affect you. Except that cycles back to masking again, as is the person who has ND traits, but masks to keep it together, NT until they sudden burn out - at which stage they were ND all along?

I mean I assumed I was NT my whole life, but in reality if I did screening for ADHD, I'd have more flat red flags than a Communist parade. But so do most people I know. And is that because actually I'm ND, and we tend to flock together, or is it I'm noticing others traits, or we labelling a perfectly normal personality subtype, which for the vast majority of people who have it, shouldn't be considered a disability.

Should the very fact that I've worked really hard to get mechanisms in my life to reduce (but not eliminate) the impact of my potential ADHD, in and of itself mean I can't possibly have ADHD because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to mitigate it?

And if that's the case, can't some people see why it might be frustrating when those of us that have created our own mechanisms to cope are told that we have it easier, and that we should potentially take on extra work and disadvantage ourselves, so that others who perhaps haven't tried so hard to mitigate themselves, can have adjustments.

Personally, I wish there was more emphasis on people learning to understand themselves, and what changes they need to make to their own lives first before asking others to make changes. For example, I struggled with getting out and to work on time, but also lateness for my particular job was NOT an option. I didn't try and make some exception for myself with this, I made sure I always got a train that was one earlier than necessary, that way when I run late, I still wouldn't be late. I get too fidgety and bored with a 9-5 office lifestyle, so than having an office job and then demanding changes, I did something different for work. I find I work better in bursts, where's I can work 15 hours because I feel like it then take 2 days off. So I went self employed.

Increased flexibility in when we work and how we work benefits most employees, and unless there's a good reason for it, I think that should be the norm. But people need to be a good fit for the job. If you're someone that likes quiet and is meticulous to detail, but panics on the phone, then work somewhere where you can thrive with that, don't apply for a job in a call centre and then say you can't take calls. I think most people can find a niche where they can not only live but can thrive.

@TheCorrsDidDreamsBetter
Thanks so much for sharing your experience and your insights. I totally get what you're saying but I still feel that I'm NT with mental health problems. I can tell that the list of traits I posted looks like an ND person's but I could have written a different list that would sound very different (like managing a performing arts faculty of 12 staff, working full time 60+ hours a week in term time, doing hobbies/activities 4 times a week and getting stressed but, significantly, not burning out.)

This post from @Imdunfer makes it clearest to me:
Of course it's not different from having persistent traits, it just means that ND people have more of them all at the same time. Contrary to your opinion, I've found NT people mostly able to understand how any one particular trait of mine affects me. The big difficulty they have is getting their head around how they stack and that the sum of 1 +1 +1 is 10, not 3, and that's what makes us ND

I have plenty of traits but 1+1+1 is 3 for me. They don't all gang up on me and explode into a 10 that makes me shut down and stop coping. I think that's a great way of explaining how and when difficult human traits become ASD/ADHD

You are entitled to your opinion … as I am mine. And I stand by what I said, without resorting to insults.

I'm not sure it is about 1+1+1=10. The spiky profile that is often referred to means that it can be 1+6+3 for one person, and 5+2+3 for another, etc. Also that the same event can be a 1 on one day but a 7 on another.

You'll have to forgive me. I wasn't trying to say you are or you aren't neurodivergent.

I was simply saying that without an assessment you will never know for sure, but I respect your autonomy and it's good to be self aware.

If I hadn't walked out of my assessment with a dual diagnosis they said they would at least be diagnosing me with cPTSD alone as trauma can mimic a lot of traits and it was my history appointment that meant I was able to be awarded a diagnosis, so you're absolutely right that it could simply be poor mental health. I suppose it's a postcode lottery but getting a dual autism and cPTSD diagnosis opened up a lot of doors in terms of trauma informed care in my area, so even if they'd have said they couldn't determine autism, I would have definitely still been able to access the right post diagnostic care for cPTSD.

What do you suggest as a solution, then?

I hear you, but if your message is that we have to accept it might be harder for an ND person to find a job, do you accept it might mean that person can't work?

Are you speaking generally or referring to ND people?

I know you didn't ask me this but of course I do. Companies have to make profits and sell at a price where people will buy.

What I can't get my head around is a minimum wage system and pay scale systems, especially in public sector jobs, that seem to be engineered to put people who are less productive in any given set of hours onto benefits instead of paying them less per hour to match their output and topping up with benefits.

There are people who could work and employers who would be happy to employ them pro rata to their productivity, but that isn't seen as acceptable and in consequence there are people on full benefits without jobs when they only actually need half and would be happier to work.

Absolutely a general observation, not specifc to ND people* at all.

.* with the caveat that unless someone discloses they are ND, how would I know? But in as far as I can tell, general.

How would this system work though?

I'll go back to my personal example.

I was hired at a contact centre for a webchat based job, where I was talking to sometimes 4 people at a time where other colleagues were taking just 2 at a time. I had the highest customer satisfaction rating in the building because I had meticulously worded my own custom scripts, and had the freedom to work in a way that suited me.

I left for maternity leave, during that time a much larger international company acquired ours and outsourced my department so they effectively sideways moved me to a call centre based roll.

For a while I struggled through, undiagnosed at the time, not sure why sometimes my words got stuck in my throat or I took long pauses or could only get whispers out. Didn't understand that I had selective mutism. Didn't know that the reason I was sat staring at a wall for sometimes 30 minutes between calls in what felt like a blink of an eye was because I was having shut downs.

My personal productivity had gone from twice all of my other colleagues to a quarter, because of a business change that I had no say in.

My role had changed not only in medium but department too so I had gone from having all of these scripts available to me for specific technical support queries to general customer service enquiries where customers could ask anything and it would be unpredictable, and I can not physically formulate language in the right tone, or in the right way to questions that I've not rehearsed. I got people regularly screaming at me for sounding like a robot because I couldn't formulate answers to their unpredictable questions in a non-monotonous manner, it absolutely sabotaged my self esteem.

I did end up leaving that job although they were well on their way to managing me out, but finding another webchat only job is extremely difficult as the industry standard for contact centres these days seems to be majority calls.

Businesses make changes all the time because that's how they evolve and grow and they have to alter their processes accordingly which I completely understand which is why I left. The adjustments that would benefit me ultimately would not have been reasonable for the business at that point in their growth, but I went from being consistently their top performing employee in the technology faults webchat department, making close to £1500 bonus each month on top of my wage, able to avoid a life away from benefits to their worst performing call centre operative, being assessed as not capable for work because the work I'm qualified and able to do just isn't industry standard any more.

How would it be fair to people like me who were employed for one job and were the best at that job, to finding things difficult, going through the arduous process of acquiring adjustments to level the playing field, who may have a reduced output due to no fault of their own and arguably the fault of their employer to receive less than minimum wage for the hours that they're working because the metrics are changed to being output based? It would disproportionately affect disabled people who can work with the right adjustments.

I don't think your situation is actually relevant to what I was talking about, I'm sorry you were messed around like that by your employer.

I think there's a real danger people would fall between the cracks if that was how the system worked. And how would you assess 'less productive'? That's very difficult to quantify for some jobs. Additionally, for very many people with disabilities/conditions, productivity fluctuates in line with flare-ups and other issues, and can't be tied to the clock or the calendar. I do understand the logic you're proposing, but I don't think it's workable.

You restrict it to the jobs which can be quantifiably assessed.

There was a story in the news recently about a young man with autism who had been stacking shelves in Waitrose for a couple of years. He could do the job under supervision and was quantifiably less productive than other shelf stackers.

He worked there as a volunteer.

He loved the work, Waitrose were happy to have him.

His mother asked for him to be paid, and now he doesn't have the volunteer job and he really misses it.

If Waitrose could legally pay him less than minimum wage he would be delighted to have that money. He wants to do the work whether he's paid or not.

It would be illegal for them to do that. How is that in the interests of the young man, the shop, or society?