To be scared about how we will cope with more tax rises - council tax

[partytimed]

i really loathe this government. Usually with politics I feel like whoever is in charge I don’t notice much of a direct impact on my day to day life. Yes I’m aware of slow erosions in public services and I was no fan at all of the tories, I voted for this government im ashamed to say, and they lied and lied about their plans. I am so much worse off and if they double council tax bands virtually all of our disposable income is going to be gone. It feels like theft. I don’t trust them to spend the money I make properly it all feels corrupt and it’s just so depressing and upsetting.

There is a slightly strange discourse around council tax, which is that if you happen to live in an area where housing is more expensive… this means you should be paying vastly more for council tax too.

I don’t really see the logic - the London homeowner is already potentially having to find 3,4,5x the amount to buy a house which is ‘average’ elsewhere, in an area that can be perfectly ordinary because of the pressure on housing in the region… and for some reason this means they should be penalised for this situation (again) through higher council tax.

I agree there’s a discrepancy in how the bandings are applied due to their being 35 years out of date - but I don’t get the assumption Londoners need to be paying more because housing is more expensive locally. The streets are not lined with gold - people really struggle to afford basic and what is really quite ordinary housing.

The thing is with council tax is that it’s already banded A to H. Those with more expensive properties already pay very substantially more. Doubling G and H would be obscene. Literally would drive people from their homes. My DB lives in a band G property which him and SIL have mortgaged to the hilt. He also started his own business after being made redundant during Covid. He is a very good contributor to society but works like an utter dog and, as does sil, and they are at the limit of stress that they can take. If the govt’s actions topple people like that, then the govt will be a lot worse off.

I agree there’s a discrepancy in how the bandings are applied due to their being 35 years out of date - but I don’t get the assumption Londoners need to be paying more because housing is more expensive locally. The streets are not lined with gold - people really struggle to afford basic and what is really quite ordinary housing.

I agree. As it’s a local tax, set Band D to the average price of a property in the area and adjust the other bands from there. So if you live in an expensive property for that area you pay more. Everything’s available online now so that shouldn’t be too difficult to do.

I don’t expect a cross subsidy from London but neither do I expect a random doubling of a charge not based on the actual cost of services. And yes I do have the misfortune to live under the control of a dysfunctional Labour led council.

But they could afford the upkeep and tax - until the govt decides to double their council tax.

My elderly mum is in a 4 bed alone. Her partner died last year and now she is dying of cancer. She’s “only” band F because the house is one of the tiny cookie cutter ones with bedrooms over the garage to make it a 4 bed. She isn’t rattling around as the house isn’t large. But she’s a hair away from band G.

You are right.

Reeves is totally incompetent and does not seem to grasp that so many of us just don't have any more money to spare.

Tax, tax, tax the average worker is not going to achieve anything and it is just going to tank the economy because people will have even less money to spend.

Frankly at this point I am just thinking why bother working?

I live in a 1960 terraced house, 2 bedrooms and a very small one added to the loft. It's band G.

This is also a disaster for London renters, particularly younger people. It’s already routine for over half their earnings to be swallowed up by rent ; a significant increase in council tax will make it impossible.

The problem is the size of rent in London - it’s completely skewed - paying a fortune to essentially build up someone’s private assets yet then baulk at paying far less for the services we all want and thing should be provided - SEN provision, keeping the streets clean and tidy and providing care to disabled people ?

rents are the problem not the council tax

Lots of thanks / agreement for this post. Any politicians reading this?

Most London councils don’t charge very low council tax. I pay £360 for a band F property, A band F property locally is a two bed terrace.

Wandsworth and Westminster are outliers in their ability to charge very low council tax.

Happy to pay for local services - not sure why I should be paying vastly more for them than someone in the North of England because I happen to live in London.

Yes, it is an utterly terrible policy that makes little sense and will be very unpopular but Labour are desperate.

I believe that we need to start having more honest and mature conversations as a society. The spiralling costs of adult and child social care are clearly pushing councils towards bankruptcy. If we want to keep continuing to fund these things in the manner we currently are then we need to accept that everyone will have to pay a hell of a lot more tax across the board. We can't keep pretending we can maintain this level of spending by disproportionately taxing the so called wealthy.

Labour has led people to believe that you can be a #kind person that supports better services whilst also paying very little towards this personally if you're a 'working person'. It was an enormous lie and has got us into this mess where Reeves is desperate to avoid admitting the truth that this was never achievable. Instead she will look to hurt the rich to cushion the blow for the rest of the population that the too will have to pay more or face large, painful cuts to our biggest bills. It makes a mockery of democracy that they are allowed to continue when they have blatantly misleading the electorate and are now doing things they have no mandate to do

Ah well, us private school parents who have children with SEN were absolutely shafted and everyone cheered. We live in a shitty little house as all our money goes on fees to get my child a suitable education - something that the local council didn’t provide. So I can’t feel any sympathy now Labour are coming for everyone else. You reap what you sow!

Is that you, Rachel?

@childofthe607080s as has been shown on this thread, council tax in some parts of London is already high. And the council tax on a three or four bedroom rental property could well be doubled under this proposal.

Yes rents are high and despite falling house prices in London they’re continuing to rise due to a totally dysfunctional market which this government is only making worse.

If people are given the choice of working full time and receiving no benefits, as we all used to have to do, or reduced hours with a benefits top up, it’s hardly surprising that’s what some will choose.

The break up of families has led to a disproportionate number of parents struggling alone, mainly women. Not enough is done to ensure those who create a child support that child, usually men. In the 60s only 3% of families were single parent, its almost 12% now. Apart from the hardship, it is another reason for shortages of housing.

In the 60s only 3% of families were single parent, its almost 12% now.

It’s a lot higher than that - according to Gingerbread 1 in 4 families with dependent children are headed by a single parent

Universities have been underfunded for years though. The one I work for loses £4k for every home student they take on. If the fees don't rise then the universities will just stop taking on home students (ours has a target of 80% overseas as it is) or will become fully private and charge the same fees to home students (which is c. £45k per year).

They are the worst government in my living memory and I am old. Honestly even the people that voted for them, hate them.

The Laffer Curve really needs to be bedtime reading for Reeves et al.

Tax rates can only go so high before people stop being productive. It’s not rocket science, it’s common sense. If you price a product too highly, people stop buying it.

We need to incentivise people to work, to start businesses and to invest. You don’t do that by penalising them through higher tax.

It’s possible to have good public services without automatically putting taxes up. You lower taxes and kickstart the economy. Look at Ireland, corporations are frothing at the mouth to base themselves there and Ireland get to keep all that lovely corporation tax.

Why are Labour so shortsighted on this topic?

The UK government needs to grow orchards, not squeeze lemons. In order to get the long term sustainable growth we need, the government should invest for the future. But Labour know they are a one term term government and are kicking that can down the road.

We don’t even know yet what will happen do we?

Labour aren’t responsible for your increase in service charge or water bill though.

What?! It's everything to do with the government, or in our case lack of.

Regulation, moderation, realism, profit caps, controls on greedy sociopathic utility companies? All parts of a good government's remit.

You are not alone. We are talking about downsizing asap.