To be scared about how we will cope with more tax rises - council tax

[partytimed]

i really loathe this government. Usually with politics I feel like whoever is in charge I don’t notice much of a direct impact on my day to day life. Yes I’m aware of slow erosions in public services and I was no fan at all of the tories, I voted for this government im ashamed to say, and they lied and lied about their plans. I am so much worse off and if they double council tax bands virtually all of our disposable income is going to be gone. It feels like theft. I don’t trust them to spend the money I make properly it all feels corrupt and it’s just so depressing and upsetting.

They haven’t supported the worse off. They really are hopeless, but we’re stuck with them for a while now. 🙄

Aldo the house as asset is then sold to pay for your care fees!

But who else would pay?

Absolutely and their benefits rise with inflation whereas most salaries do not.

And it is unearned income

home owners keep getting this trotted out at them

When home ownership has been destroyed no one will be able to pay care fees. What will Councils do then?

It's not just an inverse relationship between paying tax and getting services: it's pretty much a logarithmic relationship (inverse exponential).

Those bits of council spending we actually get to use a share of eg transport (7%), waste disposal (7.5%), cultural services (0.7%) cost the council on a per-person basis: big houses don't cost more.

More than half of council spending in my county is already spent on adult social care (which is means tested obviously) and child social care, which is almost entirely spent on the lowest income households.

Now they want to double Council tax - only for those who don't have access to most of what the tax is spent on.

Whilst there are council tax exemptions for low income: those who actually use the services.

But what makes it reverse exponential is it's paid out of income which is already taxed at an increasing rate as you earn more.

Redistribution upon redistribution upon redistribution. Layer upon layer of theft.

I've had enough.

When you put it this way it’s hard to disagree.

It is hard to believe and shocking that council tax could be doubled. I keep reading mixed messages like Bands F and above or G and above. We are in F but it will be cold comfort if it ends up being G and above. It is all just so unfair! It’s shocking that hard working people who aspire to be independent and reliant totally on themselves to provide for their families and old age are being penalised. It is incredibly unfair and if this proposal is included in the shockingly delayed budget then I for one will be looking for ways to protest, and very loudly. Would anyone else be up for organising a protest? 🙏

I have just had a look on Rightmove at a large new build estate not far from where I live. There are houses all of similar price, £550 to £600k, in bands E, F and G. Crazy that they are in different bands anyway but even more so if one or two bands suddenly have their council tax doubled. These are family homes, not mansions, and considering they are about 40 miles from London not particulary highly priced.

What do you mean by you've had enough? You aren't going to pay? You're going to vote differently at the next general election in 4 years time?
No political party with a max 5 year horizon is ever going to get us out of this. I suggest you google "baby-bust economics" to work out why this is happening.
I've posted the first few paragraphs here.
Baby Bust Economics
The baby bust, or decline in birth rates, has significant implications for the economy and society. As birth rates fall, the number of workers and taxpayers decreases, leading to a higher old-age dependency ratio and fiscal strain. This situation can affect public finances, pension systems, and healthcare costs. The economic model suggests that if population growth is not maintained, it could lead to a significant decline in living standards and eventually to a "Empty Planet" scenario.

Whilst obviously demographics are a challenge - as for all Western countries - governments aren't powerless castaways in a raft on a stormy sea. They have many choices, many levers, to steer the country's course.

Labour's economic policies in particular are causing enormous damage, which we will pay for. Despite a huge majority, they haven't managed to even slow down the rise in government spending, and they've targetted taxes exactly where they will damage growth most. They've also increased the UK's debt, both by borrowing substantially and then through incomprehensible behaviour which has spooked investors, increasing our borrowing rate.

Whatever the sensible thing to do is, Labour do the opposite.

UK inflation is now twice as high as the EU - despite tracking it until a year ago. Our GDP growth per person is the lowest of the G7 (the BBC strangely only reported on overall GDP growth rather than GDP growth per person, hiding the poor results in our population size)

No, I'm not going to refuse to pay my council tax (the only one I could stop). The government knows the middle class has far too much to lose for that, which is why they think they can screw us over to satisfy their destructive ideology.

But I no longer think the UK holds the best future for my family. One family doesn't matter, but how many of the 3.8 million people who currently cover 60% of income taxes - as well as having the skills that drive growth - do you think the UK can lose without serious consequences?

What I don’t get is that by buying a house you are buying security. You pay oodles of mortgage and finally the house is yours. All yours.

And then a government decides that actually they are going to ask for £5k, £6k, £10k a year - an amount out of taxed income that for a lot of people is just undoable. I read that a proportion of homeowners will actually have to equity release in order to stay in their house. Those with already big mortgages are f**d.

I do not object to paying council tax. But if these rises come in then something has to change in councils. Councillors’ remuneration - a scandal. School transport - mismanaged and haemorrhaging money. Adult social care - unworkable in its current form and unfair. The list goes on and on and on.

I agree. It would absolutely decimate us if it was 50-100% increases.
we could probably manage to find the money but I think at that point we would be questioning whether this was the right place for our family long term.
Extra % on income tax I could live with. Anything like what is being floated on council/mansion tax, I could not.
If they did that and removed the 2 child cap I think you would have a revolt. It would be outrageously unfair.

Yes I don’t think it’s right they should be contemplating raising the 2 child cap whilst trying to fleece people with council tax rises

Yes the increase is huge for some.

I don’t understand why new bands can’t be added above, rather than increase the existing top ones. There are people in fairly standard four bedroomed houses paying the same as some mega mansion owners.

which shows the system isn't a fair system

if band H band can never be more than 3 x A band

This is me. I live in a bog-standard modern home on an estate in the SE. I had to buy my-exH out as part of divorce to ensure that our DC could still attend the same school. I did it at the time because that was best for the new mini-me family. Not ideal at all - I wanted to move and couldnt. Do you think those of us that were restricted from moving through the family courts (and abusive exs) can get an exemption? I would be ideally be living in a much cheaper neighbourhood/property etc. I am absolutely worried about this. I have an incredibly low income but my own home. I pay my way. No benefits at all. But I am not living in a home worth £2mill+. My banding is high - I think most new homes were higher.

How much more in council services do you think someone in a band H costs the council than someone in a band A? Why should they pay more than 3 times more? There's already way too much redistribution in this country.

The problem with the banding is that it's based on out-of-date thresholds, and they are set thresholds rather than say top x% of the area in band H, next x% in band G etc. That's why so many new bog-standard new builds are in such high bands.

They should reset the thresholds/make them dynamic, then value houses down, in order to be fair / reflect what was originally intended. There's been so much redistribution creep in every aspect of our lives.

It won’t be as bad as everyone is imagining we will find out next week regardless

And people thinking that just because they don’t benefit directly from services the council provide you do benefit from them. Do you want homeless beggars everywhere you go? Or people so poor burglaries rise? Gangs of teens not in school all day bored?

Do you want police, planning permissions, birth/death registrations, cemeteries and crematoriums? We grew up with libraries and leisure centres, but you don’t want to fund them for others? Are you going to be the only carers for your adult family members as they age and who is lined up to look after and pay for you if you need social care later?

We all benefit from having diverse well funded council services. Directly or not.

We all have to pay more. One way or another, and the UK needs growth, last budget business paid, income tax freezes means all workers pay, it’s house wealth’s turn this time.

Standard of living has been dropping for years, there was a 20 year lovely growth period but it’s been in decline for about 20 years all over since then.

Every budget costs us thousands. Hut the teens are ok here, so here we stay for a while longer.

Move to Dubai if you aren’t happy. (I mean not us we would never move to Dubai but we are looking at moving in 7 years ish)

No one is denying that everyone benefits from council services.

What I don't agree with is that the level of benefiting is proportional to the value of the house.

Family A, live in a house worth 2 mil, two adults two children and Bob, the labradoodle. Family B, live in a house worth 800 grand, two adults two children, and Daisy the labradoodle. The children go the the same school, the dogs are walked on the same street. Two cars in both households, same amount of rubbish.

Why does familyA have to pay more CT?

The last budget tax hike was a one off. And before that it was all “fully funded fully costed”.

Because houses are impossible to hide from the tax man.

Family A daddy does £60K salary sacrifice to his private pension
Daddy B does £30K

Come on we all know that the more money you earn and invest the more tricks there are to keep more of it.

Not so easy with a big expensive house, you can't just stand there going "what house?"

We are going to get clobbered as well. We just don't whinge "what about me and my house me me me me me".

House prices have hit a peak now, prices are rising slower than inflation, so effectively dropping even if they aren't actually dropping, and about time, increasing house prices for eternity was never sustainable.

So it's about the right time, if you want money out of property, to do it now. There will, as always, be some winners and some losers.

3.5% of houses are band G
0.6% are band H
(according to google AI)

That's a very small percentage, very small.

F's only 5.1%

Not the majority by a long shot, and that's how a society needs to work, not for the minority. about 10% of all houses in total. So 90% are not in these bands.

So it's the 10% of people in the biggest houses saying "it's not fair", and not even all of them, most of them will roll their eyes and pay up. It's a vanishingly small percentage of the population who will be affected, and care that much.

It's a simple question.

Does family A use more council resources and if not then why should they be paying more?